[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Robo]

now the flames forced baertchi into a position of not signing ... wow I think when management saw vancouver offering a second round pick they took it and ran laughing. There were other gm's saying they wouldn't want sven anywhere near their other prospects.

[Ozy_Flame]

When you bring in guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, Bouma, Ferland, Shore, Jooris and Granlund, with Poirier, Bennett and Wotherspoon waiting on the wings, you don't have to get too bummed about losing a prospect. I'd say our system for developing talent is more than great.

[Azhouse]

Baertschi shmaertschi.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Seriously, all he needed to do was to shave those darn side-burns.

His unwillingness to do so is why he was unable to crack the Flames' NHL roster, and shows a lack of character.

[JohnnySkittles]

People calling Sven a cancer are pathetic, good lord.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Seriously, all he needed to do was to shave those darn side-burns.

His unwillingness to do so is why he was unable to crack the Flames' NHL roster, and shows a lack of character.

[AC]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

People calling Sven a cancer are pathetic, good lord.

Who said that?

You are literally the first person to use the word 'cancer' in this thread.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

People calling Sven a cancer are pathetic, good lord.

And who is doing that?

[AC]

Apparently no follow-up by JohnnySkittles. He was just viewing the thread for a while now.

I am thoroughly surprised.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by AC

Apparently no follow-up by JohnnySkittles. He was just viewing the thread for a while now.

I am thoroughly surprised.

You mean JohnnyDrive-by? Shocked.

[Volas]

Originally Posted by AC

Apparently no follow-up by JohnnySkittles. He was just viewing the thread for a while now.

I am thoroughly surprised.

..

Originally Posted by Robo

now the flames forced baertchi into a position of not signing ... wow I think when management saw vancouver offering a second round pick they took it and ran laughing. There were other gm's saying they wouldn't want sven anywhere near their other prospects.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by AC

Apparently no follow-up by JohnnySkittles. He was just viewing the thread for a while now.

I am thoroughly surprised.

I hate that. And frankly even if he can produce one person that said it - who cares. All sorts of dumb stuff gets posted on this board. Doesn't mean it reflects the opinions of the forum overall or the community.

Drive-by indeed.

[Cheese]

[AC]

Originally Posted by Volas

..

And? Robo didn't say he was a cancer and he was likely referring to this from Elliot Friedman:

"Even worse, a few teams that saw him were exceedingly unimpressed, with one suggesting he wouldn’t want Baertschi near his other prospects."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...for-ted-nolan/

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I hate that. And frankly even if he can produce one person that said it - who cares. All sorts of dumb stuff gets posted on this board. Doesn't mean it reflects the opinions of the forum overall or the community.

Drive-by indeed.

Kind of "pathetic" actually.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

...As was pointed out above, the early expectations set on Sven by management, fans, and likely himself combined with the fact our club&farm affiliate do not play a game that caters to his individual strengths seemed to grind down on the player over time and reveal what many would describe as a mentally fragile, "not quite there yet" maturity-wise prospect (myself included, to a degree). Only thing I saw differently was entitlement; to me it was frustration/disappointment developed not towards the organization itself, but at a situation that was becoming clear would never allow Sven to hit his ceiling, and also at himself as a player for being unable to adapt to change that outcome...

Strange situation, if your read on it is accurate. I mean, I keep coming back to the same point time and time again in these discussions: Baertschi's struggles as a player in the Flames organisation is directly tied to the fact that he was not playing better than a sizeable handful of other prospects including Gaudreau, Ferland, Grandlund, Shore, and Poirier. Odd then, that he was the ONLY one from this group of six to have so much difficulty with "the system." Its not like all of them are the same type of player.

Put most simply, he was not elevating himself above his peers this season, and he was not providing any reason to the Flames to give him any more opportunities than he received in the NHL.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by New Era

He's the enemy now. I hope he has no NHL career after not making the Canucks out of camp next season and being waived. Didn't like his entitlement issues and didn't like he held a gun to the Flames head to force a trade. He's a punk with no character. Almost the perfect Vancouver Canuck.

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Sven playing better this quickly in his new environment proves one thing and one thing only. That he clearly had entitlement issues and wasn't ready to prove himself here in our system, and felt he was being victimized.

Originally Posted by AC

Who said that?

You are literally the first person to use the word 'cancer' in this thread.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And who is doing that?

Originally Posted by AC

Apparently no follow-up by JohnnySkittles. He was just viewing the thread for a while now.

I am thoroughly surprised.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I hate that. And frankly even if he can produce one person that said it - who cares. All sorts of dumb stuff gets posted on this board. Doesn't mean it reflects the opinions of the forum overall or the community.

Drive-by indeed.

Posts such as New Era & Cleveland Steam Whistle. Just garbage that once certain players are no longer a Flame he's awful, good riddance, personality issues, etc. Those type of things. (ex: Iggy, Tangs, Sven)

Saying 'cancer' was more-so just a one worded phrase to collectively encompass the things I labelled above.

Also, realize that not everyone lives on this forum for 20 hours a day. People have other obligations outside of immediately responding to a post. Especially when The Walking Dead/Talking Dead finale is on

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

Posts such as New Era & Cleveland Steam Whistle. Just garbage that once certain players are no longer a Flame he's awful, good riddance, personality issues, etc. Those type of things. (ex: Iggy, Tangs, Sven)

That's just not true. For every one of the three examples you listed, there have been numerous posters for a very long time who have been critical, and always with the same criticism:

· Iginla: Inadvertently contributed to a tension between coaches/players, and was instrumental in promoting the in-room culture that was not healthy.
· Tanguay: Visibly affected by his role on the team, and was non-committal to playing a certain way.
· Baertschi: Visibly affected by his on-ice mistakes in games; there were extensive reports since 2012 that he potentially had entitlement issues—his whole response to being included in the prospects camp and rookie tournament the following year were well documented, and quite troubling.

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

Saying 'cancer' was more-so just a one worded phrase to collectively encompass the things I labelled above...

But YOU are the only one who used this inflammatory word. The term is a gross exaggeration of what CSW and New Era are getting at.

But finally—and for the record—this idea that Baertschi was the cause of some problems in Adirondack (this is what I take "cancer" in this context to mean, which IS NOT what ANY other posters in the last 24 hours have been saying) is not without basis:

This is a transcript of Elliot Friedman's appearance on the FAN 960 morning show from 3 Nov 2014:

Originally Posted by Elliot Friedman

"The timing of it was a little bit interesting for me because in doing my show prep on the week, I happened to speak to three teams that had seen him play in Adirondack. And the review on him was universally negative. They were like, 'He’s not really competing hard, he’s not really playing that well.' There were beginning to wonder what the future would be and as a couple of guys said to me there’s no way Calgary can be happy with this.

"The thing is, I looked into it. I’ll give the Calgary guys credit. They really stood up for him. They said, 'Look, here’s a guy who is not going to be happy with going back to the American Hockey League. Here’s a guy who wants to be in the NHL, feels he should be in the NHL.' And they understood that initially when he went back down to the AHL that he was going to be disappointed.

"What they really fought back against was the fact that he was a negative guy or that he was causing a problem down there. There have been teams in the past, who they get a guy in there American Hockey League team and if he’s negative, they’re like, 'We cannot have this here.'

"Because I know Calgary feels they have some decent young players there. They don’t want negativity around them. So they really fought back against that belief. They said, 'Look, he’s not scoring. But the idea that he’s been a drain on people or he’s being negative around people – we’re going to defend him against that because we don’t believe that to be the case.'

"And they said they felt in the last week he was starting to play better and getting going, but just wasn’t getting any luck.

"So the thing is too, and this is the thing I always check, is when is the player eligible for waivers. Because that’s usually when a team has to really make a call on someone. 'Do we want to risk losing him for nothing?' And I don’t believe he’s eligible for waivers until next season.

"So I think the Flames still feel like they have some time. I know there’s a lot of debate about whether or not he’s a Brian Burke player. But the one thing I learned on the weekend is that this team is really fighting hard against what appears to be the position from outside that this guy hasn’t tried hard since he’s gotten back to the American Hockey League."

So, from this it is clear that the perception of people in hockey and from other teams was that Baertschi was a problem for the Flames. To the Flames credit, they did everything they could to support the player, and to ensure that he would succeed. He didn't follow through.

*EDIT* In case you missed it (weird that you didn't see this just three posts above your response), I borrowed AC's link to another Friedman statement about the situation:

"Even worse, a few teams that saw him were exceedingly unimpressed, with one suggesting he wouldn’t want Baertschi near his other prospects."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...for-ted-nolan/

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

When you bring in guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, Bouma, Ferland, Shore, Jooris and Granlund, with Poirier, Bennett and Wotherspoon waiting on the wings, you don't have to get too bummed about losing a prospect. I'd say our system for developing talent is more than great.

Yeah, gotta admit I still find it kinda depressing the way the whole Baertschi experience ended up playing out. And that's definitely a way to feel better about it: this never would've happened if we didn't suddenly have a serious influx in young talent coming up, which basically ended up lapping him in development, leaving him stuck disgruntled on the farm.

It's a great indicator of all the prospects the Flames now have in their system, and tells you the future is bright.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

Posts such as New Era & Cleveland Steam Whistle. Just garbage that once certain players are no longer a Flame he's awful, good riddance, personality issues, etc. Those type of things. (ex: Iggy, Tangs, Sven)

Saying 'cancer' was more-so just a one worded phrase to collectively encompass the things I labelled above.

Also, realize that not everyone lives on this forum for 20 hours a day. People have other obligations outside of immediately responding to a post. Especially when The Walking Dead/Talking Dead finale is on

I know for sure that New Era has never hidden his feelings about Baertschi as a prospect. Sven becoming Vancouver property had zero effect on that. Not sure about CSW