Alberta Healthcare premiums to return

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I would really like to see a user fee system for ER and Doctor visits implemented rather then just premiums. Waive the the fee for the elderly, infants and those receiveing recurring care (chemo). But yah as mentioned above a simple line on our tax form would be much better then whatever plan they have to unroll this.

That's the exact opposite of public health care.

[wooohooo]

Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a set charge of like $50 to see the Doctor. Just enough to stop people from unnecessary appointments.

Or giving more responsibility to other health professionals. Pharmacists are more than enough trained to be giving certain pill refills like Birth control pills. Is it really necessary for people to go see the Doctor for 10 minutes for a simple refill?

Or for any eye problems you can see your optometrist (they're starting to change this I believe). That would lessen the strain we have on our ER and family doctor's quite a bit.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Interesting point. Theoretically any large fund, pension fund, reserve fund, investment fund etc, should be hedged for inflation....a $100 contribution in 1965 should have accumulated enough returned income to satisfy its 2015 value. As well, it's all relative as your current 2015 contribution will be laughably low whenever you retire.

What I was trying to say is that the OAS portion of your contribution is not actually a pension or old age security at all. Anyone who has paid any amount into it and then doesn't qualify for getting it back is getting taxed to the tune of about 15% for their entire working life.

So like I said, don't worry, if rich seniors get off the hook for health care premiums, they will make up for it in OAS clawbacks.

OAS is paid for out of general revenues and not CPP.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a set charge of like $50 to see the Doctor. Just enough to stop people from unnecessary appointments.

-snip-

Though the intentions are good, that can lead to costing more money. Many people with less money, or even just s desire to spend $50 somewhere else rather than a doctor would put off a problem, making it a bigger problem and ending up in the ER or needing more care over he long term. Catching things early can save a lot of money.

It also punishes people with chronic health issues through no fault of their own.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Though the intentions are good, that can lead to costing more money. Many people with less money, or even just s desire to spend $50 somewhere else rather than a doctor would put off a problem, making it a bigger problem and ending up in the ER or needing more care over he long term. Catching things early can save a lot of money.

It also punishes people with chronic health issues through no fault of their own.

I think what they are trying to say is that they want to raise the budget for primary care providers such that more Albertan's can have a relationship with their 'family doctor' so they wont need to strain the costly emergency services the province provides.

Or maybe i'm mis-reading them?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Interesting point. Theoretically any large fund, pension fund, reserve fund, investment fund etc, should be hedged for inflation....a $100 contribution in 1965 should have accumulated enough returned income to satisfy its 2015 value. As well, it's all relative as your current 2015 contribution will be laughably low whenever you retire.

What I was trying to say is that the OAS portion of your contribution is not actually a pension or old age security at all. Anyone who has paid any amount into it and then doesn't qualify for getting it back is getting taxed to the tune of about 15% for their entire working life.

So like I said, don't worry, if rich seniors get off the hook for health care premiums, they will make up for it in OAS clawbacks.

Theoretically they should put enough away from your contributions that the investment income makes up for inflation and your contributions pay for your pensions. Politically, they didn't, so current old people paid very low rates until the 1990s. Then, rates went way up to pay for the undercontributions of the past. Essentially, current young people pay for their own pension plus a good part of the pension of someone who undercontributed their whole life.

OAS actually works out the same way, although the mechanism is different. The boomers paid for the OAS of the greatest generation when they were working, but there were many more of them to divide out the burden and they deficit financed it. As the boomers retire, the ratio of people collecting OAS to those working will be much higher, increasing the burden on the current workforce.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

The boomers paid for the OAS of the greatest generation when they were working, but there were many more of them to divide out the burden and they deficit financed it. As the boomers retire, the ratio of people collecting OAS to those working will be much higher, increasing the burden on the current workforce.

This is why it burns me so much when I hear older Canadians calling for a halt to immigration. My generation doesn't have the luxury of the favourable demographics that boomers enjoyed. And now they want to make the public finances profile confronting today's younger generations even more unfavourable just because they don't like being served at Tim Horton's by someone who doesn't speak english as their first language? Sorry, boomers. You guys didn't pay your own way, and now I need help to support you in your old age.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Though the intentions are good, that can lead to costing more money. Many people with less money, or even just s desire to spend $50 somewhere else rather than a doctor would put off a problem, making it a bigger problem and ending up in the ER or needing more care over he long term. Catching things early can save a lot of money.

It also punishes people with chronic health issues through no fault of their own.

This exact thing happens already. People refuse to wait 5+ hours to see a doc so they just don't go, making their issues worse.

[wooohooo]

Yup it's a horrible cycle. I won't go to a doctor unless I'm literally dying and even then its a struggle. The waits are so long for them to just tell me to rest or give me antibiotics.

We put a small fee in place, discourages people who need them to go. Its free it gets abused by people who want to see a doctor for a papercut demanding xrays and MRIs. I'm really not sure what the solution is.

But as I said before, giving other health professionals would help alleviate the strain of seeing a doctor. Many nurses in the states can prescribe simple medicines. Maybe that's part of the solution.

If we have an eye problem we should be seeing an optometrist first. Also they can treat much more with all the training they get, let's use them.

Perhaps change the model of how patients are seen. Once prescribed meds, maybe a pharmacist can do refills unless its a narcotic. Maybe have a better PCN so patients can know which Doctor isn't that busy.

I dunno. Such a debateable topic with so many ramifications.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I would really like to see a user fee system for ER and Doctor visits implemented rather then just premiums. Waive the the fee for the elderly, infants and those receiveing recurring care (chemo). But yah as mentioned above a simple line on our tax form would be much better then whatever plan they have to unroll this.

Yep, let's just completely ignore people with chronic illnesses that fall outside the age brackets.

[rubecube]

If people want to see less wait times, how about asking employers to stop requiring doctor's notes for 1 or 2 missed days of work?

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a set charge of like $50 to see the Doctor. Just enough to stop people from unnecessary appointments.

For many people $50 to see a Doctor would be enough to avoid seeking medical treatment. This is how people go to the Doctor and find out they have Stage 4 Cancer. "My gut hurts. It's probably nothing and I don't have $50..."

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by rubecube

If people want to see less wait times, how about asking employers to stop requiring doctor's notes for 1 or 2 missed days of work?

Really?

Is this a thing?

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I do not have a problem with this.

I spoke too soon!

[nik-]

What changed in two days?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Really?

Is this a thing?

Yup. I've had a boss demand a co-worker to take a picture of sick note and text it to the boss when he couldn't make it in one day.

[mrkajz44]

I thought doctor notes for prolonged sickness was pretty standard. My company is pretty generous (I thought) in you can take 3 business days in a row sick and not require a note. Four or more and then a note is required.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I'm on board with that but would it actually result in a meaningful reduction in wait times?

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by nik-

What changed in two days?

half joking.

I was hoping the premiums would go directly to health care infrastructure or services. From what I can tell it isn't.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

Yup it's a horrible cycle. I won't go to a doctor unless I'm literally dying and even then its a struggle. The waits are so long for them to just tell me to rest or give me antibiotics.

Antibiotics without a prescription would be the worst idea ever. I don't know how we stop this per se. Maybe have respiratory triage nurses who can order swabs or xrays?

Perhaps change the model of how patients are seen. Once prescribed meds, maybe a pharmacist can do refills unless its a narcotic.

This is already being done.


One of the biggest issues with access is that the gatekeeper to further access is the hardest professional to see: a physician.