Inheritance entitlement problems

[Raekwon]

My mother in-law passed away 2 years before her father he had 3 daughters, of the 3 daughters and my mother in-law was the only one that constantly kept in contact and visited etc. After she passed away my wife and I took over visiting and late night calls to help (falling and not being able to get up). When he passed he wrote his will to split everything among his living daughters basically omitting an entire portion of the family. The 2 daughters received a bunch of land and money and I personally felt he should have let the equal portion go to my wife and her sister.

Yeah I'm a little bitter about it, not because of the money or land but because undeserving people always seem to come out ahead in the end.

ps. sorry the beginning starts out sounding like a riddle

[GP_Matt]

I just don't think it is healthy for some members of society to sit on so much wealth.
If you agree with the Picketty studies being posted then income from wealth is increasing faster than income earned from labour. That means that it will continue to lead to the wealthy owning more and more of the land.

Is it right that the Irving family inherited 3.6 million acres of land? Along with the control of a huge media empire on the east coast.

[Tinordi]

Is it right that the Irving family inherited 3.6 million acres of land? Along with the control of a huge media empire on the east coast.

Why do you question the purity of nature and wish to socially engineer us to a government imposed hell?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Working in the finance industry, I loathe these people. They are leeches. Most people I know who have been given substantial inheritance either blow within a few years or horde it in their bank/investment accounts earning money for nothing and do dick all otherwise.

Wow, I have had the opposite experience. And I work in finance also.

It's all about parenting.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I don't like the fact that some of the richest people in Canada and the US did nothing for their wealth and paid no tax to receive it. I wonder how many of them are participating in the giving pledge.

Incorrect. The US has an inheritance tax and it's massive.

It's part of the reason that you've seen a lot of off shore accounts in the US, because a lot of people feel the inheritance tax is extremely unfair. Also it's why the US was giving amnesty for a time to anyone who violated the tax code by hiding their assets, because so many people were doing it. If they brought their assets back they would not be prosecuted. The US is so desperate for tax dollars and part of the reason is that their tax code is not logical and so people find loopholes.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

One thing to consider is that an inheritance tax would probably end up hurting middle class inheritors much more than the obscenely wealthy.

Say your middle class parents bought a lake lot 50 years ago. Over time they saved up enough to build a nice retirement cabin on it. Now they want to leave it to you and your brother and you both love going out to that lake.

Well that's too bad because the lake has gotten popular and the property is now appraised at 800,000 and the government will demand a third of that in cash when your parents pass away Which you don't have lying around.

You get screwed out of a place that has great sentimental value as a result.

That already happens under the current system. The deceased person's estate would have to pay tax on the lake property's capital gains before it could be transferred to their heirs.

[Coach]

[QUOTE=Erick Estrada;5185281]IMO there's just something morally wrong with taxing after tax money.

But hoarding wealth, driving an ever-widening wealth gap, and being gifted the ability to not contribute is completely ok?

and I realize that wealthy people are looked at as fat cats by some but not everyone has had money bags fall in their laps and a lot of them spent a good portion of their lives working hard amassing their fortunes. My dad worked his ass off 7 days a week for over a decade never taking a holiday and I would hate to see him waste the good years of his life working only to see that half of those years were essentially wasted because the government is set to wait him out until he dies to re-tax it and soak his lifetime earnings once more. You can argue all you want about if the government is prudent with the money but the fact is that they got their tax money already on it and what's left is my father's money not theirs and he already paid them his dues on it. To further nickel and dime it because he's passed away is immoral IMO.

Well, an inheritance tax wouldn't affect him at all, since he's self-made. If he wants to spend all his money and drive the economy as capitalism intends it, that's totally fine. And if you're at the point where you can't spend all you have, well you probably have too much.

If there is a town of farmers, and one yields crops enough to feed himself, his family and the whole town one season, while the rest don't yield enough to feed their families (possibly for reasons out of their control), is it moral for the "fat cat" to sit on his excessive pile of food while others starve? And then, the "fat cat" passes an unnecessary amount of seeds to his children (of which they could be given more than enough, while also helping the rest of the town if they were given even a fraction of the seeds), while the rest of the towns children have to find new ways to feed themselves because the farm is dry. The trickle-down solution is that the kids of the "fat cat" hires the whole town to work his farm, who of course will be paid reasonable wage rates, based off what they need to survive and not what maximizes the profits for the farm.

Does any of that sound moral?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Communist!

Seriously though, you can't just say "X is immoral". You need to tell me why. What is your theory of morality that would make that wrong? It sure isn't utilitarianism - not that utilitarianism is a great moral theory but it's generally the basis for law in modern society.

[firebug]

Easy solution...

All estates (above a certain reasonable threshold...2 or 3 million maybe and adjusted by CPI in the future) are subjected to a significant estate tax.

All proceeds from this estate tax are dividended (tax free) on an annual basis equally to all Canadian citizens residing in the country. That way, the money isn't taxed a 2nd (or 3rd time), dynasties are disrupted etc. etc. and the stoopid guberment doesn't get to squander all of it away in general revenues.

[heep223]

How about instead of a tax, 1/2 of any inheritance has to be donated into a private foundation? Either a family foundation or a public (like the Calgary Foundation). Once the money is in there it can't be taken out, it's out of the government's hands and it's going back into the community to people who need it. And off spring still get some inheritance.

If you don't know, a foundation is simply a legal entity that holds capital (invested) and is legally obligated to donate 3.5% of it's AUM to registered Canadian charities (or other foundations).

I would not be for an estate tax. But I would be for something like the above.

[Phanuthier]

Someone mentioned above, re: Inheritance tax..... I think the people that end up getting taxed, again, are the middle class working folk. The rich fat cats used have some fancy trust fund set up to avoid getting taxed.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Someone mentioned above, re: Inheritance tax..... I think the people that end up getting taxed, again, are the middle class working folk. The rich fat cats used have some fancy trust fund set up to avoid getting taxed.

But that's not an argument against them, that's just cynicism.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Few questions / comments :

- I was told that in the last year you live, you (some?) spend a million dollars. True? False?

Nope. If that was true 99% of people would be ****ed.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Someone mentioned above, re: Inheritance tax..... I think the people that end up getting taxed, again, are the middle class working folk. The rich fat cats used have some fancy trust fund set up to avoid getting taxed.

Rich fat cats or simply smart people who take the effort to understand taxes and prefer keeping more of their money as opposed to giving it away to the government?

[MoneyGuy]

I'm impressed there are so many people here who don't care about inheriting their parents' money, preferring that the parents live well and enjoy the fruits of their labours. I work in finance and have seen some horror stories, including one that would blow you away. In my own family I was executor for my parents' estates and we had a potential for a major dispute, but when reasonable people sit down and talk things out it's amazing what can be achieved.

Great discussion.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Rich fat cats or simply smart people who take the effort to understand taxes and prefer keeping more of their money as opposed to giving it away to the government?

The latter, I was just being facetious cause we are all hard working folk who don't need a penny of our hard working parents money, cause we can make it on our own by our own dang hard work.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Nope. If that was true 99% of people would be ****ed.

Foolishly, I've always assumed that and had somewhat of a target # for when I reach 55... what is the expected $$ expected value to be used in your last year you survive?

[comrade]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I'm impressed there are so many people here who don't care about inheriting their parents' money, preferring that the parents live well and enjoy the fruits of their labours. I work in finance and have seen some horror stories, including one that would blow you away. In my own family I was executor for my parents' estates and we had a potential for a major dispute, but when reasonable people sit down and talk things out it's amazing what can be achieved.

Great discussion.

It's interesting, personal anecdotes and articles make it sound like a lot of children are very much looking forward to their inheritance, yet no one in this thread will cop to feeling the same way. I know I've said the same thing as everyone else here. I wonder if we're actually just fooling ourselves to some degree.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Someone mentioned above, re: Inheritance tax..... I think the people that end up getting taxed, again, are the middle class working folk. The rich fat cats used have some fancy trust fund set up to avoid getting taxed.

A trust is a taxable entity...

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I just don't think it is healthy for some members of society to sit on so much wealth.

Look I believe that there's an issue in that the upper class is getting fat while the middle class is getting the shaft but that's more due to corporate business structure than it is inheritance.

Everyone has the same opportunities in life to build wealth. You can even be a corporate fat cat if you put in the work. I don't believe families that have been successful should have so subsidize people that wasted their lives or were simply poor with their money and there are a lot of people that fall into their category and if there's anything I've learned in life it's that the people that need the most help always get the least so I simply don't believe the people that you believe should benefit from spreading the wealth would end up seeing any tangible benefit from this additional taxation.