The New American Politics thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

My favourite part of the GOP traitors is they're the group who fawns over the Founding Fathers and the constitution, yet the Founding Fathers would hang all of them for such treason that violates the constitution. Least shocking part of the story is the assclown who drafted the letter's first meeting after sending it? With defense contractors.

[DuffMan]

My favorite part was how Irans foreign minister had to set them straight on the workings of waht they were doing or threatening or whatever.

[killer_carlson]

I recognize Clinton doesn't belong to the GOP, but she will run away with the Democratic nomination.

Obama's foreign policy has been an utter disaster. We won't agree with this. You see him as reaching out diplomatically, I see him as drawing lines in the sand and having bluffs called. And he's alienating allies - Canada, Israel, Germany amongst others.

That website is no different than the Fox news equivalents talking about what a terrible job he has done.

Here is something of a balanced one:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...tion-obamacare


What do I think the next US president should do?

1) Approve Keystone and its jobs. You may recall that Obama was given a failing grade for talking the truth about the project. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ur-pinocchios/

Warren Buffet, an Obama supporter, even criticized Obama for that one
2) Stop the bleeding economically. Obama added over $6,500,000,000,000 (yes, 6.5 Trillion) to the US Debt in the past 5 years. Bush was second worse by putting up 5.87 in his term). This needs to stop.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

But let me ask, what do think the next POTUS should do to pick up the pieces?

Not be black.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I recognize Clinton doesn't belong to the GOP, but she will run away with the Democratic nomination.

Obama's foreign policy has been an utter disaster. We won't agree with this. You see him as reaching out diplomatically, I see him as drawing lines in the sand and having bluffs called. And he's alienating allies - Canada, Israel, Germany amongst others.

That website is no different than the Fox news equivalents talking about what a terrible job he has done.

Here is something of a balanced one:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...tion-obamacare


What do I think the next US president should do?

1) Approve Keystone and its jobs. You may recall that Obama was given a failing grade for talking the truth about the project. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ur-pinocchios/

Warren Buffet, an Obama supporter, even criticized Obama for that one
2) Stop the bleeding economically. Obama added over $6,500,000,000,000 (yes, 6.5 Trillion) to the US Debt in the past 5 years. Bush was second worse by putting up 5.87 in his term). This needs to stop.

I feel you're probably overestimating the economic impact of the Keystone pipeline. I imagine there are hundreds of people on this site with direct experience in the O&G sector who could explain better than me if this is true.

Also, I would argue that, as the deficit has been falling, the process of reducing the debt has begun.

[Looch City]

The Iranian Foreign Minister's reply is spot on:

"In our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda plot. It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history."

"I should bring one important point to the attention of the authors and that is, the world is not the United States. The conduct of inter-state relations is governed by international law, and not by U.S. domestic law."

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by driveway

I feel you're probably overestimating the economic impact of the Keystone pipeline. I imagine there are hundreds of people on this site with direct experience in the O&G sector who could explain better than me if this is true.

Also, I would argue that, as the deficit has been falling, the process of reducing the debt has begun.

This was another good article by Yeldin, and I think helps covey the big picture of the economic impacts of Keystone.

http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...sands-keystone

This is bigger than just jobs created during construction. It helps on many levels including helping refineries in the US keep feedstock levels up which creates refining jobs, transportation jobs for the refined product from Huston area, less reliance on foreign oil sources that indirectly support oppression or terrorism, less reliance on oil by rail which is more dangerous, improved relations with the closest ally the US has, and frankly the oil is going to China or India (thus strengthening them) if they don't want it.

There are other benefits as well, but to look at it as a few thousand temp construction jobs, and a few hundred jobs after is dishonest. There is a larger picture here Obama is willfully ignoring for political reasons. The pipeline is not a cure all, but it is pretty close to a no brainier considering the thousands of miles of pipe that has been quietly built in the US while Keystone has grabbed the attention.

The whole thing is a farce, and that Obama is willing to at very least delay something that can help his people so a small environmental minority can (wrongly) feel better shows what kind of politician he is. A typical one. No better or worse than a guy like Bush, but the hype he gets is crazy and it was lost on me years ago.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I recognize Clinton doesn't belong to the GOP, but she will run away with the Democratic nomination.

Obama's foreign policy has been an utter disaster. We won't agree with this. You see him as reaching out diplomatically, I see him as drawing lines in the sand and having bluffs called. And he's alienating allies - Canada, Israel, Germany amongst others.

That website is no different than the Fox news equivalents talking about what a terrible job he has done.

Here is something of a balanced one:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...tion-obamacare


What do I think the next US president should do?

1) Approve Keystone and its jobs. You may recall that Obama was given a failing grade for talking the truth about the project. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ur-pinocchios/

Warren Buffet, an Obama supporter, even criticized Obama for that one
2) Stop the bleeding economically. Obama added over $6,500,000,000,000 (yes, 6.5 Trillion) to the US Debt in the past 5 years. Bush was second worse by putting up 5.87 in his term). This needs to stop.

That website provided proof of all of those accomplishements, something FNC doesn't know how to do, so no, they are not the same. FNC provides opinons that are meant to persuade the gullible, not facts.

His foreign policy has been an utter disaster? If the Republicans had won the last 2 elections, the US, probably would have started a war with Iran by now, for starters, and how do you think that would have gone.
He's generally not gotten the US involved in the ME, for a change and while it's very tough for everyone to watch what is going on over there, not getting too involved is for the best. The players in the ME have to work together to take of ISIS, and sort out their problems.
What do you suggest he do with Russia? invade?

The jobs provided by the pipeline, are not going to be as many as you think they are, and until the US does a better job with managing pipelines etc. I'm OK with it not going through. Companies are doing whatever they want down there without regulations and inspections.


and just wondering how do you suggest they stop the bleeding economically?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

The jobs provided by the pipeline, are not going to be as many as you think they are, and until the US does a better job with managing pipelines etc. I'm OK with it not going through. Companies are doing whatever they want down there without regulations and inspections.

News to me.

[killer_carlson]

I could create the exact same style of website about Redford and spin it into positives.

It's partisan spinning of facts.

And the economic recovery is barely limping along. Crawling is a better word.

Foreign policy: Where does the American's under Obama tapping of Merkel's phone rank on the grand scale of progressiveness?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I could create the exact same style of website about Redford and spin it into positives.

I think you couldn't, but think of what would happen if Obama did what Redford did.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by nik-

Not be black.

I've noticed a resurgence of the term 'uppity' lately.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

That website provided proof of all of those accomplishements, something FNC doesn't know how to do, so no, they are not the same. FNC provides opinons that are meant to persuade the gullible, not facts.

His foreign policy has been an utter disaster? If the Republicans had won the last 2 elections, the US, probably would have started a war with Iran by now, for starters, and how do you think that would have gone.
He's generally not gotten the US involved in the ME, for a change and while it's very tough for everyone to watch what is going on over there, not getting too involved is for the best. The players in the ME have to work together to take of ISIS, and sort out their problems.
What do you suggest he do with Russia? invade?

The jobs provided by the pipeline, are not going to be as many as you think they are, and until the US does a better job with managing pipelines etc. I'm OK with it not going through. Companies are doing whatever they want down there without regulations and inspections.


and just wondering how do you suggest they stop the bleeding economically?

Obama's foreign policy is far from perfect, but a whole lot of the issues that his administration has been facing were issues brought about far before he got into office. ISIS came to power because GWB insisted on starting a war on false pretenses which led to a vacuum of power which led to the rise of ISIS. Most Middle East issues are things that outside interference aren't going to fix--these are battles that are centuries (and sometimes millenia) old, and Western interference has just muddied the process even further.

And as said above--what exactly do you do with Russia? Invade? Cold War Redux? It's kind of a no-win situation. This country doesn't need another war--we can't afford it. Hell, we can't even afford to take care of the veterans we already have, let alone creating more.

I find it hilarious that Fox News types paint Putin as a strong, solid leader that they wish Obama was more like--yet when Obama tries to show strength, such as with executive orders, he's a liberal tyrant with no respect for the constitution.

He's far from a perfect president, but he's still a drastic improvement from his predecessor.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

How exactly is Obama soft on anything? More drone strikes than Bush,

I was a big Obama supporter and hated Bush, but using model airplanes on a few tribes isn't all that tough IMO.

He looks like a pussyfart in his dealings with Putin on Ukraine. a real leader would have freaked when MH17 was shot down killing 300 with russian missiles. Tell you what! In Reagan's or Kennedy's days Putin would be running from Ukraine with his tail between his legs.

He's soft on Iran looking for a anti-nuke deal that isn't there, He's soft on N-Korea and even allowed a movie company(of all people) to make America look like pussys.

And the thing that really pisses me off is his stance in ISIS. Instead of asking for a few bombing runs from muslim countries how about asking for them to stop these 20,000 freaks with boots on the ground from other Sunni countries?

20,000 ISIS should be nothing. If you want to get rid of ISIS it will take a muslim country that promotes shahara law to fight them. Problem is Obama has no balls to even ask prominently Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia (180,000 troops) or Jordan (150,000 troops) because he knows they would never do it because of religion.

Obama continues to say it's not a religious war. He's wrong.
He's soft and doesn't have a pair to call his own.

[Tinordi]

He looks like a pussyfart in his dealings with Putin on Ukraine. a real leader would have freaked when MH17 was shot down killing 300 with russian missiles. Tell you what! In Reagan's or Kennedy's days Putin would be running from Ukraine with his tail between his legs.

What the heck is wrong with you?

[T@T]

MOD EDIT: Not needed.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by T@T

I was a big Obama supporter and hated Bush, but using model airplanes on a few tribes isn't all that tough IMO.

He looks like a pussyfart in his dealings with Putin on Ukraine. a real leader would have freaked when MH17 was shot down killing 300 with russian missiles. Tell you what! In Reagan's or Kennedy's days Putin would be running from Ukraine with his tail between his legs.

He's soft on Iran looking for a anti-nuke deal that isn't there, He's soft on N-Korea and even allowed a movie company(of all people) to make America look like pussys.

And the thing that really pisses me off is his stance in ISIS. Instead of asking for a few bombing runs from muslim countries how about asking for them to stop these 20,000 freaks with boots on the ground from other Sunni countries?

20,000 ISIS should be nothing. If you want to get rid of ISIS it will take a muslim country that promotes shahara law to fight them. Problem is Obama has no balls to even ask prominently Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia (180,000 troops) or Jordan (150,000 troops) because he knows they would never do it because of religion.

Obama continues to say it's not a religious war. He's wrong.
He's soft and doesn't have a pair to call his own.

This is a B+ Grade 10 level assessment of the foreign policy concerns facing the United States. Well done.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by driveway

This is a B+ Grade 10 level assessment of the foreign policy concerns facing the United States. Well done.

It just needed the words, "unconstitutional" and "illegal" and it would have fit right in at Fox Comedy/News Channel comments.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

The Iranian Foreign Minister's reply is spot on:

"In our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda plot. It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history."

"I should bring one important point to the attention of the authors and that is, the world is not the United States. The conduct of inter-state relations is governed by international law, and not by U.S. domestic law."

So, as between the government of Iran and the Republican Congress, Iran is the reasonable and measured party and Congress is the off-the-wall crazy reactionary group with no respect for the rule of law.

Huh.

Originally Posted by T@T

Tell you what! In Reagan's or Kennedy's days Putin would be running from Ukraine with his tail between his legs.

Obama also has a limp handshake, I hear.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by T@T

I was a big Obama supporter and hated Bush, but using model airplanes on a few tribes isn't all that tough IMO.

He looks like a pussyfart in his dealings with Putin on Ukraine. a real leader would have freaked when MH17 was shot down killing 300 with russian missiles. Tell you what! In Reagan's or Kennedy's days Putin would be running from Ukraine with his tail between his legs.

Reagan was an awful president. Full stop. A whole lot of the problems the US faces now are because of ridiculous policies he put in place, not the least of which is the completely unwinnable "war on drugs" that is draining this entire country of millions of dollars of resources annually.

He's soft on Iran looking for a anti-nuke deal that isn't there, He's soft on N-Korea and even allowed a movie company(of all people) to make America look like pussys.

So you'd rather just start another war we can't afford with another Middle Eastern nation whose ideology is merely going to make Al Qaeda hate the US and the west even more, and prompt more people to join their cause, etc.

And had Obama strong-armed Sony, Fox would've complained that he was a dictator and was infringing on First Amendment rights, because the POTUS doesn't really have a whole lot to say in what Sony as a privately owned company does or doesn't do.

And the thing that really pisses me off is his stance in ISIS. Instead of asking for a few bombing runs from muslim countries how about asking for them to stop these 20,000 freaks with boots on the ground from other Sunni countries?

20,000 ISIS should be nothing. If you want to get rid of ISIS it will take a muslim country that promotes shahara law to fight them. Problem is Obama has no balls to even ask prominently Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia (180,000 troops) or Jordan (150,000 troops) because he knows they would never do it because of religion.

ISIS wants battles. ISIS wants to bring about the apocalypse, which they see as happening when Western forces battle them on their own ground. They don't care how many of their own die in this cause. ISIS is terrifying for the particular region, but they do not pose a threat to the US directly. They are not offensive terrorists in that they're not looking to create attacks worldwide. The goal of ISIS is the owning of land for their Caliphate. The more western interference and military force, the more credence is given to their mission statement, the more people want to join their cause and help protect said Caliphate, the larger ISIS grows and the harder it is to deal with.

These are not simple "just bomb them all" problems. They are hugely complex issues that are better handled with a steady hand and cool head rather than just going in angrily bombing everything. Just going in angrily bombing everything is what got ISIS there in the first place.