[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Flame19,289]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I'm starting to wonder what comes first: 10,000 posts in this thread or Sven's 10th career goal...

We're almost 1/sventh of a way there...

[GranteedEV]

Sventastic!

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

The debate is some of us don't feel like he was ever given a fair shake.

I understand that many have obviously turned on Sven, and many had soured on him long before he was even dealt.

9 mins of ice time playing with checkers and grinders was never putting Sven into a position where he could succeed.

Regardless of how he performed he was stapled to the bench in the third period.

Regardless of how he performed he was never given more minutes.

All of Gaudreau, Jooris, Granlund, Monahan were given minutes from the get go and basically put in a sink or swim pattern. Some faltered and after a scratch were put back into the lineup with some more ice time to prove what they were. They also got linemates to play to their strengths.

Listen I understand that coaches have their favorites, and guys that they don't like. Coaches are human too. Hartley has brought our young guys along great this season, but he clearly didn't like what he saw from Sven.

Baertschi had an extremely short leash compared to our other young guys. Anybody that watched the games can't deny this fact.

What Sven is will be clear to see if and when Vancouver gives him ice time that exceeds the 9 mins a night he got under Hartley this year. My big problem with the way it all was handled is nobody actually knows what Sven actually is. NHL star? KHL bound? 2nd line scoring winger? Bust? I just wish Hartley had given him some leash to find out.

Now I won't argue that Sven had some nights this season where he wasn't getting premium ice time.

However last season he played 26 games with the Flames, over 1/4 of a full season, not one game did he get less than 10 minutes. He was playing 18 minutes some nights, some nights 15 minutes. He was given ample opportunity to shine and he had 2 goals and 9 assists, and a pretty ineffective 200 ft game. He had his opportunities. This season the competition on the wings was stronger, the games have been much more important, they're fighting for the playoffs, ice time just isn't as easy to give out. I just don't buy that he wasn't given some leash. He was given a tremendous amount of opportunity.

Detroit is obviously the benchmark on player development and for good reason.

Here's a quote from Tomas Tatar:

“Obviously when you’re in Grand Rapids you’re not happy you’re not here,” Tatar said. “It’s kind of frustrating. But at the end of the day, it’s going to help you. This is the right way for development. I mean, it helped me a lot to be in G.R. and play my minutes there, be in certain situations on the ice and just learn. The hard way, I think, is the right way.”

That is the kind of attitude expected of a pro.

Here's another one:

“Coach explain to me that I’m the youngest guy, I have to wait for my chance,” Tatar said. “And then I started on the fourth line. I had to build the trust in the coach, and it took me maybe 40 games.”

That is again the attitude expected from a pro.

Here's a quote from Babcock:

“I like him,” Babcock said. “I think he’s a good player. He’s a very usable player, has a knack for the net. But early going in the season, tie goes to the veteran not to the kid. That’s just life. It’s amazing how that works. We’ll get it worked out.”

If you can take criticism, use it as motivation, and prove yourself, then you will have every chance to succeed.

[jemjey]

nvm

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by jemjey

nvm

What are you talking about?!?!?!

[jemjey]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

What are you talking about?!?!?!

i was misinformed.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

However last season he played 26 games with the Flames, over 1/4 of a full season, not one game did he get less than 10 minutes. He was playing 18 minutes some nights, some nights 15 minutes. He was given ample opportunity to shine and he had 2 goals and 9 assists, and a pretty ineffective 200 ft game. He had his opportunities. This season the competition on the wings was stronger, the games have been much more important, they're fighting for the playoffs, ice time just isn't as easy to give out. I just don't buy that he wasn't given some leash. He was given a tremendous amount of opportunity.

Detroit is obviously the benchmark on player development and for good reason.

That's the big issue. Sven got passed by on the depth chart, but at the same time, the Flames screwed up his development. They didn't make Sven earn his minutes before. He was gifted opportunities and he did a pretty good job. And then suddenly, Sven got publically criticized by Burke, and he got benched while guys like McGrattan played.

The Detroit player development model isn't a cookie cutter one. Sure, they like to give their prospects at least some AHL time, but they have also been criticized for keeping their prospects in the AHL too long. They also don't call out their prospects.

I don't hold any ill will towards Sven. He has been very complimentary of Calgary and the Flames organization and him threatening to go to Europe is just a rumor. I don't know what went on in Sven's mind. Given his waiver status next season, he should be confident that he will get every opportunity to stay in the NHL. I guess that is what he wanted to talk to Treliving about. I don't fault the guy. How many of us felt that Sven was in the Flames' long-term plans?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FAN

The Detroit player development model isn't a cookie cutter one. Sure, they like to give their prospects at least some AHL time, but they have also been criticized for keeping their prospects in the AHL too long. They also don't call out their prospects.

Plus their draft picks tend to be 2nd, 3rd, 6th rounders. A lot easier to keep those humble than 13th overalls. Their last 1st rounder to make their team was Riley Sheahan, who is basically a Mark Jankowski.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

People keep saying he got critiqued by Burke then all went down hill. But Sven's struggles started the season before I believe, before Burke arrived no?

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Plus their draft picks tend to be 2nd, 3rd, 6th rounders. A lot easier to keep those humble than 13th overalls. Their last 1st rounder to make their team was Riley Sheahan, who is basically a Mark Jankowski.

My thoughts exactly. Detroit gets held up as the gold standard. They also picked Landon Ferraro ahead of Ryan O'Reilly in the 2009 draft. They took Tatar in the same round, but it proves what an inexact science draft teenagers is. The key is picks and plenty of them.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames would have had the right to match any NHL contract that Sven would have signed. If the worry is waivers that is different from free agency.

They don't get to match the KHL which is basically what Sven's option was, and what I was referring to by mentioning free agency. The waiver item was a factor, but Sven said he wouldn't re-sign anyway.

[sekimet]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They don't get to match the KHL which is basically what Sven's option was, and what I was referring to by mentioning free agency. The waiver item was a factor, but Sven said he wouldn't re-sign anyway.

I think it speaks volumes about flames management that they preferred to give the kid a chance and trade him then force him out of the NHL. Was what burke said wrong? maybe... He was more likely trying to motivate then "destroy and mismanage" as some think. Seems there is a short memory with some flames fans about how our first round picks turn out.... I think we did well, and continue to do so.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by FAN

That's the big issue. Sven got passed by on the depth chart, but at the same time, the Flames screwed up his development. They didn't make Sven earn his minutes before. He was gifted opportunities and he did a pretty good job. And then suddenly, Sven got publically criticized by Burke, and he got benched while guys like McGrattan played.

The Detroit player development model isn't a cookie cutter one. Sure, they like to give their prospects at least some AHL time, but they have also been criticized for keeping their prospects in the AHL too long. They also don't call out their prospects.

I don't hold any ill will towards Sven. He has been very complimentary of Calgary and the Flames organization and him threatening to go to Europe is just a rumor. I don't know what went on in Sven's mind. Given his waiver status next season, he should be confident that he will get every opportunity to stay in the NHL. I guess that is what he wanted to talk to Treliving about. I don't fault the guy. How many of us felt that Sven was in the Flames' long-term plans?

Bolded for truth, The minute big mouth Burke slammed our 13th overall pick publicly his worth went down. so glad we don't have to hear from this bloated overrated exec much anymore.

[Jagermeister]

Overall I think considering the circumstances the Flames did alright. Weird how it was to Vancouver though... Wasn't there something about Sven's twitter and following the Canucks not that long ago. Maybe hes always liked Van.

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by Flame19,289

We're almost 1/sventh of a way there...

Very Nice!

Also Svensational has officaly been laid to rest with the coming of...

Schlemsational!

[Dajazz]

Come on guys, I know your upset about losing Sven, but at least don't make stuff up.

Babcock isn't the least shy to say what he thinks to the media. He called out Hudler on several occasions, worked out pretty well I think.

Holland is pretty frank as well, commenting on prospect progress in the AHL, both positives and negatives.

What Burke said is no different to Holland and/or Babcock saying that Player X has to get stronger, faster or work harder. We see these type of comments almost daily in the media, after games and so on.

Sven was called on his work ethic in all 3 zones, that was pretty damn justified. Phil Kessel kan get away with it since he'll pot 30 goals, so can Iginla. Sven - not so much since he's not really a scoring machine. Should he be exempt from what the coach is demanding from other players?

[sekimet]

Originally Posted by T@T

Bolded for truth, The minute big mouth Burke slammed our 13th overall pick publicly his worth went down. so glad we don't have to hear from this bloated overrated exec much anymore.

Oh please, that was purely motivational speak, you think his poor play was unnoticed by other teams? At that point he was a player the flames singled out as trying to motivate for a position. Sven had proven and played so well to be valued SO SO highly with his performance until burke said something...

Give me a break. Vancouver is a last destination, they saw value and the flames saw value returned for someone who didnt want to be here. I would take a second over a overseas loss who has possible NHL upside.

[Azhouse]

Double post

[Azhouse]

"There are three zones in the ice surfaces in this league. I don’t see that he’s learned to play and compete in two of them. He’s got to learn there’s a clock in this league and there’s so many minutes in the game and that you’ve got to compete through all of it. I see this is a guy who’s focusing on one area [scoring] and even then, sporadically,” Burke said. “So I don’t know what we have.
“I’m not ready to quit on a young kid. I’m not ready to throw him under the bus here today and rip him, but I think you can tell from my comments that I see big holes and I see a lack of commitment that’s not going to get him anywhere in my books.”

Ya Burke's comments are so harsh. No wonder Sven packed it in on this team.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

Ya Burke's comments are so harsh. No wonder Sven packed it in on this team.

You have to love Burkie, in the same sentence that he says he's not going to throw the kid under the bus he then proceeds to see just how for under he can get him.