Prentice Blames Albertans

[nieuwy-89]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

So the reigning ruling party, sorry, elected party for the last, what, 4 decades? They're off the hook? It's the people?

That's like saying its an abused womans fault for going back to her wife beating Husband. "welp, she kept going back to him so its their fault".

I realize that may sound hypocritical because I say albertans get what they deserve by re-electing these clowns, but the fault lays with the Conservative governments. The people are still wrong to go back to the same idiots.

In politics ideology can only get you so far. The reason the PC's win every election is because they have the candidates and platform that are most responsive to the public's interests at that time. It is a very pragmatic way of campaigning and governing, as opposed to other more dogmatic styles (see the US system).

As someone who has had my toe in provincial politics, I can tell you the success of the PC party is based on how well it mirrors the wants and needs of ordinary Albertans. The public sets the policy expectation, and then the government implements it. The cycle continues weekly, monthly, yearly and ultimately election after election.

And hence Prentice is saying what he is saying: we all got into this mess together, we're going to need to clean it up together.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Prior to the last election the PC's had almost no opposition combined with massive majorites. Under Stelmach and Redford we burned through all of our savings and ran deficits while oil prices and overall revenues were at all time highs. To say that the public is to blame is a load of crap. Incompetent government is to blame and the only thing that has changed is that the most visible pig has new lipstick.

Didn't the wildrose form very shortly after the alberta royalty review?

Didn't wild roses' outspoken opposition to raising the royalty rates cower the government into lowering them? Didn't the Wild Rose suggest that citizens should get a resource royalty refund cheque? It looks like they did.

The Wildrose party pledged Monday to return 20 per cent of surplus oil and gas revenues to Albertans, a move that harkens back to the $400 “Ralph bucks” given out in 2006.

Wildrose Leader Danielle Smith said their energy dividend would funnel cash away from government and into peoples’ wallets.

“Wildrose believes that Albertans can spend their own money better than government,” Smith said in a news release. “That is precisely why we’ve got a plan to put more money back in their pockets instead of government coffers.”

The plan would not take effect until the province is in a surplus again, but Smith estimates every Albertan would receive $300 in 2015. The last time Albertans got energy surplus cheques from the government was 2006, when then Premier Ralph Klein gave each Albertan $400. The move was lauded by many, but also heavily-criticized by those who said it showed a lack of planning amid the resource boom.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

$90k within ten years is not some spectacular feat. A ten year professional in the private sector can (and should) be able to make far more than that.

That's not often reality. Maybe that's the Alberta "excess" that has unfortunately become a standard that sets unrealistic expectations.

[polak]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

What grade do they teach if you don't mind me asking?

$90k within ten years is not some spectacular feat. A ten year professional in the private sector can (and should) be able to make far more than that.

Wow that's some entitlement you have there.

The average salary in Calgary is what? 65 K a year?

Now you know where I get my stance

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by polak

Wow that's some entitlement you have there.

The average salary in Calgary is what? 65 K a year?

Now you know where I get my stance

How is that entitlement? I am highly educated in a very specific field with a great deal of experience.

I can go anywhere in North America or Europe and make what I do now.

That doesn't make me entitled, it just means I expect a fair compensation for the skills and experience I bring to my job.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

My favourite part of all this will be that the good people of Alberta will simply vote Prentice and the Conservatives to a sweeping majority next chance they get.

Horribly mis-managed province , but, hey Conservatives are better with budgets than NDP and Liberals right?

..Right?

Albertans get exactly what they deserve with this party of high spending, low taxing clowns.

Do you live in Manitoba? Glass houses or what!
Keep enjoying those transfer payments from our mis-managed province.

[polak]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

How is that entitlement? I am highly educated in a very specific field with a great deal of experience.

I can go anywhere in North America or Europe and make what I do now.

That doesn't make me entitled, it just means I expect a fair compensation for the skills and experience I bring to my job.

Are you talking about a teacher?

Cause if you are then I disagree. Your education, although longer than average, is basic and is currently producing too many graduates then there are positions. Your skills are easily transferable and teachable.

This is an example of the exact entitlement that is the cause of my frustration with teachers.

[Flash Walken]

I think the penny-ante distractions witnessed above are a pretty good example of why Albertans keep voting in politicians and policies that are doomed to fail.

Preoccupied with the wages of other professions, completely ignoring foundational ideology and the broad strokes of what provincial finance involves.

But what do I know, it's probably the healthcare managers...

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by polak

Wow that's some entitlement you have there.

The average salary in Calgary is what? 65 K a year?

Now you know where I get my stance

But is a teacher an average employee?

They have to go to university for six years, I would wager that is more education than the average employee. (And let's not quibble about on the job training, and life skills, and all other types of education, let's stick to accredited post secondary etc.)

The average salary is just that, averaged right across the board. It includes a lot of low salaries of people who work menial jobs. A better scale to see if teachers are paid accordingly might be to look at how professionals are paid, or individuals with the same amount of education are paid.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by polak

Are you talking about a teacher?

Cause if you are then I disagree.

I am not a teacher.

Well aware you disagree.

Not going to waste more of my time debating with you.

[Daradon]

While I do think Alberta and Albertan's do need some honesty, I think Prentice took it too far.

I also don't see the huge debate on just which party was voted for.

The biggest problem here is what it's always been. The government's inablilty to move beyond the boom and bust cycle of the oilpatch. While it's impossible to say how the Wildrose would have dealt with it, I really didn't see anything in their budget or platform that shown they had any better ideas. It's been a failure of all governments. People get dazzled by the big money during boom times, and forget to plan for the lean times.

I would argue, that hinges on a lot of things us voters can't control, and more on policies, plans, and ideas of the people we put in charge. Which isn't going to be fixed simply by voting someone different in.

For many years now I've been arguing that we need to diversify our economy. I'm not exactly sure how this could be done. I was about to write about five ideas I had, but I'll finish this post here for brevity, and for the fact, people will probably poke holes in them fairly quickly. But I'm not an economist, nor am I in government service. Having ideas is probably a good thing. We need experts to refine them, make them better, and leaders to put them into action. We need to rethink how our province earns and spends money, and look forward, not back at an industry that is slowly becoming obsolete.

[polak]

Reposting so it's not missed:

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

How is that entitlement? I am highly educated in a very specific field with a great deal of experience.

I can go anywhere in North America or Europe and make what I do now.

That doesn't make me entitled, it just means I expect a fair compensation for the skills and experience I bring to my job.

Are you talking about a teacher?

Cause if you are then I disagree. Your education, although longer than average, is basic and is currently producing too many graduates then there are positions. Your skills are easily transferable and teachable. There are many positions like this. They require an education, but the education is easily obtainable (I have one of those degrees) so expecting to be handed a guaranteed salary of 90K after 10 years simply because you showed up is ridiculous.

This is an example of the exact entitlement that is the cause of my frustration with teachers.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by polak

Reposting so it's not missed:



Are you talking about a teacher?

Cause if you are then I disagree. Your education, although longer than average, is basic and is currently producing too many graduates then there are positions. Your skills are easily transferable and teachable.

This is an example of the exact entitlement that is the cause of my frustration with teachers.

I'm not going to debate the whole post, or even the point of the post, cause, while I don't agree, I could see how people would feel this way, and a balance in the debate might be in the middle. I just want to comment on the bolded part, as that could alter the point of the post.

At current levels, yes there are more graduates than positions. However, classrooms are overcrowded, and almost all specialty teachers have been eliminated. Especially those for gifted students, who have long been ignored and left behind by a failing system. Imagine if we had a whole new generation of properly taught geniuses to help us out! But I digress.

For a system that we could be proud of, a system that was in the top ten or even fifteen in the world, which I think people would largely agree, Canada/Alberta should be included in, that level of graduates would probably be in line with our needs.

[IliketoPuck]

Polak: Re-posting so it is not missed.

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I am not a teacher.

Well aware you disagree.

Not going to waste more of my time debating with you.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think the penny-ante distractions witnessed above are a pretty good example of why Albertans keep voting in politicians and policies that are doomed to fail.

Preoccupied with the wages of other professions, completely ignoring foundational ideology and the broad strokes of what provincial finance involves.

But what do I know, it's probably the healthcare managers...

Crabs in a barrel.

[crazy_eoj]

This thread is a great juxtaposition to the layoffs in the oil patch thread!

I'm not sure why anyone would be up in arms about Prentice's comments. I mean, who else could be responsible except for Albertans? It can't be Saskatchewanites' fault that our finances are in terrible shape.

[terminator]

I understand Polak's position, when infact teachers failed him.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

This thread is a great juxtaposition to the layoffs in the oil patch thread!

I'm not sure why anyone would be up in arms about Prentice's comments. I mean, who else could be responsible except for Albertans? It can't be Saskatchewanites' fault that our finances are in terrible shape.

Well, as strictly a literal statement, of course it's true. But it implies blame in situations where it could just be circumstance or bad luck, or even bad leadership. (And as I argued earlier, I don't think simply voting in someone different would have changed that bad leadership)

Yes our leaders are Albertans too, but that's not what he was saying, or how it sounded.

I agree there is some mirror looking ahead, but I think the statement would have meant more if Prentice turned the lens on the leadership first, and come to the table with some ideas. We've been slave to boom and bust too long, and lived in a spend/cut paradigm too long. Those aren't the only economic positions, and aren't the only solutions to the problems. And that falls squarely on leadership more than anyone else.

[Resolute 14]

It is kind of like Kevin Lowe blaming the fans for the state of the Oilers. Yes, the fans bear some responsibility because they keep showing up and handing over their money, but the ultimate fault lies with management.

So when the people at the root of the problem start blaming others for their own mistakes, that rubs people the wrong way. And the longer Prentice's lackeys keep trying to argue this is overblown or that it was taken out of context, the longer it is going to be a story.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It is kind of like Kevin Lowe blaming the fans for the state of the Oilers. Yes, the fans bear some responsibility because they keep showing up and handing over their money, but the ultimate fault lies with management.

So when the people at the root of the problem start blaming others for their own mistakes, that rubs people the wrong way. And the longer Prentice's lackeys keep trying to argue this is overblown or that it was taken out of context, the longer it is going to be a story.

I saw that earlier in the thread and its not a completely accurate analogy. In this case you had opposition parties crying foul and pressing for increased savings and taxes. People frankly didn't want to go that route; they voted PC en masse and probably even included you! The fact is that people continued to vote for the party that was best for their wallet and someone had to pay. In order to do that we were relying on resource revenue, and eventually that's not sustainable. The citizens of Alberta all shared in the benefit of lower taxes for decades, hence it's not really a government issue.

I think its amusing that the opposition parties are all saying it was the Tory mismanagement that has done this. Its not. The citizens not only didn't vote anyone else in, they weren't even close to doing so. No one took the threat of decreased oil and gas revenues seriously enough to do anything about it.

Overall the opposition is in shambles with how their reacting to Prentice I think. They're suggesting that problem isn't the people and that the government should take the blame on one hand, and then on the other they're suggesting cuts and increased revenue. So basically they're advocating the same thing. They were first upset that Prentice was not elected and had no mandate, but now he plans to hold and election and basically destroy them, so holding an election is somehow undemocratic. It's just a mess.