[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Guess Flames brass had made up their minds in him long ago.

Sven requested a trade and stated would not re-sign. Sven made up HIS mind on the matter.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

This whole topic has been beaten to death; but it sure seems like the trade of Glencross would have been he perfect opportunity to give Sven some real minutes, with real quality linemates.
Guess Flames brass had made up their minds in him long ago.
fare thee well Sven.

Yep, Glencross being traded gave Sven an opportunity to get that spot, but rather went a different path. It's best we move on from him. Not all prospects are going to pan out.

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

Sven requested a trade and stated would not re-sign. Sven made up HIS mind on the matter.

You don't think him playing quality minutes in the final 20 games might have changed his mind?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

You don't think him playing quality minutes in the final 20 games might have changed his mind?

According to Trelving, Baertschi's agent made it clear that their mind was made up and that there were no discussions to be had.... period.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

You don't think him playing quality minutes in the final 20 games might have changed his mind?

Always earned, never given
He didn't earn them.

[Textcritic]

^
I was just about to post exactly that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

You don't think him playing quality minutes in the final 20 games might have changed his mind?

Possibly. But time was up. The trade deadline was the time to make a decision. And at that point, there was only one sensible course of action.

[Bingo]

I love the passion, but I'm a little surprised this is still an argument two days and 64 pages later.

Sometimes logic should just trump emotion.

Were the Flames mean to Sven? Burke was harsh, I think Hartley has every right to demand two way play in 2015

Did the Flames give Baertschi a chance? He played roughly a quarter of each of the past three seasons. That's a lot of hockey for a guy that hasn't had a chance.

Have the Flames had other top six forwards pass Baertschi in this time frame? Clearly. Monahan, Bennett and Gaudreau are all obvious, and that's three of six spots. Grandlund and Jooris have moved past him. They have Shore, Poirier and Ferland pushing. Klimchuk in the weeds. Notice I haven't mentioned Reinhart in this? Maybe the Flames are wrecking him too!

Should the Flames have traded him? Given the players passing him making it less likely that he can play in the top six in Calgary, yes. Given the fact that he's asked for a trade and said he wouldn't sign here? Clearly!

I just don't get the debate.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I love the passion, but I'm a little surprised this is still an argument two days and 64 pages later.

Sometimes logic should just trump emotion.

Were the Flames mean to Sven? Burke was harsh, I think Hartley has every right to demand two way play in 2015

Did the Flames give Baertschi a chance? He played roughly a quarter of each of the past three seasons. That's a lot of hockey for a guy that hasn't had a chance.

Have the Flames had other top six forwards pass Baertschi in this time frame? Clearly. Monahan, Bennett and Gaudreau are all obvious, and that's three of six spots. Grandlund and Jooris have moved past him. They have Shore, Poirier and Ferland pushing. Klimchuk in the weeds. Notice I haven't mentioned Reinhart in this? Maybe the Flames are wrecking him too!

Should the Flames have traded him? Given the players passing him making it less likely that he can play in the top six in Calgary, yes. Given the fact that he's asked for a trade and said he wouldn't sign here? Clearly!

I just don't get the debate.

I was just going to post the exact same thing....

[GioforPM]

Treliving: "Hmmmm - Sven has demanded a trade and says he won't re-sign. If I don't trade him now, and he continues that stance, I have to trade him just ahead of free agency, and we will get a 4th round pick, like we paid for Colborne. We are also in a playoff push, so every game counts.

So my decision is to experiment and put Sven, who has not produced at all in his stints this year, up in place of Glencross, a player he is nothing like, ahead of players who have earned either a promotion from the bottom 6 or from the minors."

Sounds like a plan.

[FlamesAddiction]

Yeah really. All it would do is put the trade demand idea in the heads of other players/agents that want to be fast tracked to the NHL.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Always earned, never given
He didn't earn them.

Precisely. If the Flames just give Sven top 6 minutes simply because he was a first round draft pick, Sven thinks he should be top 6, so does his dad, and we want to make him happy because he is unhappy being in the AHL, then what kind of message does that send to the rest of the team? Does Emile start thinking his permanent top 6 role is coming soon because Sven got his? Always earned, never given , unless you're Sven Baertschi.

[David Struch]

Forslund, Marty Murray, Torgaev, Domenichelli, Krivokrasov, Lundmark, Nemisz, Chucko, Saprykin, Cervenka, Horak, Baertschi...

[CsInMyBlood]

The debate is some of us don't feel like he was ever given a fair shake.

I understand that many have obviously turned on Sven, and many had soured on him long before he was even dealt.

9 mins of ice time playing with checkers and grinders was never putting Sven into a position where he could succeed.

Regardless of how he performed he was stapled to the bench in the third period.

Regardless of how he performed he was never given more minutes.

All of Gaudreau, Jooris, Granlund, Monahan were given minutes from the get go and basically put in a sink or swim pattern. Some faltered and after a scratch were put back into the lineup with some more ice time to prove what they were. They also got linemates to play to their strengths.

Listen I understand that coaches have their favorites, and guys that they don't like. Coaches are human too. Hartley has brought our young guys along great this season, but he clearly didn't like what he saw from Sven.

Baertschi had an extremely short leash compared to our other young guys. Anybody that watched the games can't deny this fact.

What Sven is will be clear to see if and when Vancouver gives him ice time that exceeds the 9 mins a night he got under Hartley this year. My big problem with the way it all was handled is nobody actually knows what Sven actually is. NHL star? KHL bound? 2nd line scoring winger? Bust? I just wish Hartley had given him some leash to find out.

[stemit14]

Even if it meant a lower return like a 4th round pick instead of a second round pick, I would have rated the flames trade baertschi to an eastern team instead of the Canucks. Everyone can argue the merits of baertschi's progression and whether or not he was mis-managed... But in the end, I think this trade will come back to haunt the flames in the fairly near future.

I imagine the Canucks will give him a real shot at a top six position... In fact, I bet they put him with sedins and he starts putting up solid numbers like we all know he's capable of. He'll be extra motivated and feel like he has a fresh start with a new management/coaching staff. To me... All this will add up to baertschi flourishing with the Canucks. Which will be very frustrating for all of us.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

The debate is some of us don't feel like he was ever given a fair shake.

I understand that many have obviously turned on Sven, and many had soured on him long before he was even dealt.

9 mins of ice time playing with checkers and grinders was never putting Sven into a position where he could succeed.

.

It's the bolded part that I strongly disagree with. If he is going to succeed at the NHL level, he has to have a deeper game than what he currently has. Playing with 3rd line checking players is exactly what you do to teach young players that. The Flames were trying to help him and he threw it back at them.

The NHL has little room for "top 6 or bust" types of players unless their skill is absolutely unreal. His best chance at having a long and meaningful career is to develop other skills.

[Cflames_12.5]

On the bright side we won't have to read any more Sven trade proposals.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Forslund, Marty Murray, Torgaev, Domenichelli, Krivokrasov, Lundmark, Nemisz, Chucko, Saprykin, Cervenka, Horak, Baertschi...

I'm not sure I understand what this is a list of. Players the flames traded away who didn't amount to much afterwards?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I love the passion, but I'm a little surprised this is still an argument two days and 64 pages later.

Sometimes logic should just trump emotion.

Were the Flames mean to Sven? Burke was harsh, I think Hartley has every right to demand two way play in 2015

Did the Flames give Baertschi a chance? He played roughly a quarter of each of the past three seasons. That's a lot of hockey for a guy that hasn't had a chance.

Have the Flames had other top six forwards pass Baertschi in this time frame? Clearly. Monahan, Bennett and Gaudreau are all obvious, and that's three of six spots. Grandlund and Jooris have moved past him. They have Shore, Poirier and Ferland pushing. Klimchuk in the weeds. Notice I haven't mentioned Reinhart in this? Maybe the Flames are wrecking him too!

Should the Flames have traded him? Given the players passing him making it less likely that he can play in the top six in Calgary, yes. Given the fact that he's asked for a trade and said he wouldn't sign here? Clearly!

I just don't get the debate.

I think a crucial element is the fact that he was traded to not just a divisional rival, but emotionally, Calgary's biggest rival in the Canucks.

The trade itself is not so bad but the amount of regret/consternation will be compounded several times in the future if he becomes successful on our rival and it comes back to haunt us. We've seen this sort of thing before with Martin St. Louis (different circumstances but emotionally similar in terms of regret).

[Nme-Territory]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Forslund, Marty Murray, Torgaev, Domenichelli, Krivokrasov, Lundmark, Nemisz, Chucko, Saprykin, Cervenka, Horak, Baertschi...

Why don't you just throw St. Louis in there for good measure.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is? Is there a point or are we supposed to believe that Baertschi and someone like Saprykin have something in common other than being ex-Flames. If that's the criteria for your list I can think of a couple more names.