[News] With the 54th overall pick the Flames select RW Hunter Smith

[Lanny_McDonald]

@Ashasx

I've never seen anyone so butthurt over the trade of a prospect in my life. You elevated Baertschi to such a high level, and when he failed to achieve that with the team, you elected to take out your anger and frustration on every other player in the Flames organization. Because Baertschi is gone you are now going to make it your sole purpose on this site to run every prospect down for no other reason than you hope it will prove the team incapable of judging talent and making yourself fell better about Baertschi's failure.

Smith is a fine prospect for what he is. He is not supposed to be a handler of the puck. He is beef out there to make room for the small skilled players like Gaudreau. Smith's job will be to crash the net and score ugly goals. He'll be counter on to lay the lumber into someone's teeth should they try and take liberties with those smaller guys. Because of his unique skill set those guys with the high end skills will have more room and should achieve greater success.

Now, please, for the sake of the forum, get over the loss of Baertschi and get back on board with understanding each player and the potential they have.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Uh, I don't see it.

Maybe he becomes that next.... I don't know. I can't really think of any star forward that is ~6'7", but the Flames weren't going for a homerun with this pick. This seems like a relatively safe bet for somebody who can play on the 4th line for a few minutes a night and spend the rest in the penalty box.

Sorry, but the Flames didn't spend a 2nd round pick for a goon as you are implying. Do you really believe that is what they did here? Do you really, really believe that the Flames spent that 2nd round pick in the hopes of one day realizing a home-grown 4th line goon?

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If you really want to play this game, I can list just as many in rounds 3 and beyond that became fantastic goaltenders, and I can name even more that were drafted in rounds 1-2 that were complete busts.

He is not 'playing games' Ashasx. Listing off some of the top goaltenders today who were selected by their respective teams in the first 2 rounds is providing proof that your assertion that selecting goaltenders in the first 2 rounds are a waste. I believe it was Darren Hayes who obliterated that argument statistically. I am sure someone can provide you with that (I am too lazy to look it up), as you obviously missed it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by polak

They just won two cups... You resign everyone you bloody can.

That was my point wasn't it...

You were the one who said they were a dime a dozen and could easily replace them with anybody from the AHL or free agency.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is an extremely short-sited view of the issue.

First, kids are bigger today, and continue to get bigger. 6'7" used to be huge and unusual but it is not going to be as unusual going forward. There was a time when 6'4" or 5" was unusual, but saying that a guy didn't have a chance because there weren't many 6'4" guys before him would have been short-sited and misguided. Today's 6'7" is the 6'4" of a generation ago.

Second, the ability to coach skating skills has improved immensely. One of the biggest challenges for a big kid is dealing with co-ordination quickly enough to be able to keep up in the skating department. While that was an immense challenge in the past, it is less so now. Coaching can really improve a player's skating.

Saying that being 6'7" reduces his chances of being in the NHL because there haven't been a lot of 6'7" players in the NHL in the past is a ridiculous argument.

I never said being 6'7" reduces your chances of being an NHLer. I said it reduces your chances of becoming an impact forward.

I'm now seeing people calling me defensive. I don't know why. Nothing in my posts so far have been defensive.

Also seeing Lucic brought up as a comparable. Lucic is 4 inches shorter than Smith and does not play the same game. (Lucic also has Scheuermann's disease which is an unbelievably unique situation for an NHLer).

When you are 6 foot 7, the game you play changes, especially as a forward. It is truly difficult for forwards of than height to make an impact beyond fighting and sitting in front of the net on the powerplay. Maybe this is what the Flames wanted, but I don't know what else Hunter Smith could possibly become.

[Blarg]

We should have a thread before each draft where people can post who they believe are the top 100 draft eligible players to look back on years into the future.
It grinds my gears when users bash teams for picking players at a certain spots when it seems that all they have to go on for their critique is opinion from sports writers who are not NHL scouts (or failed), and stat leaderboards from junior leagues.
Posters could have scouting experience, I have no idea. But it would cool to see who predicts the abilities of 18 year old kids better.

I love to cheer for the success of Flames picks. As a fan, why would I want to see a prospect fail just to prove myself right?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Uh, I don't see it.

Maybe he becomes that next.... I don't know. I can't really think of any star forward that is ~6'7", but the Flames weren't going for a homerun with this pick. This seems like a relatively safe bet for somebody who can play on the 4th line for a few minutes a night and spend the rest in the penalty box.

That sentence suggests that you know little to nothing about this player

The old "big, must be a goon" argument

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Sorry, but the Flames didn't spend a 2nd round pick for a goon as you are implying. Do you really believe that is what they did here? Do you really, really believe that the Flames spent that 2nd round pick in the hopes of one day realizing a home-grown 4th line goon?



He is not 'playing games' Ashasx. Listing off some of the top goaltenders today who were selected by their respective teams in the first 2 rounds is providing proof that your assertion that selecting goaltenders in the first 2 rounds are a waste. I believe it was Darren Hayes who obliterated that argument statistically. I am sure someone can provide you with that (I am too lazy to look it up), as you obviously missed it.

How does that at all provide proof that me assertion is wasted?

Look at all the starting goaltenders in the NHL right now. How many of them were selected in the first two rounds relative to rounds three and beyond?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I never said being 6'7" reduces your chances of being an NHLer. I said it reduces your chances of becoming an impact forward.

I'm now seeing people calling me defensive. I don't know why. Nothing in my posts so far have been defensive.

Also seeing Lucic brought up as a comparable. Lucic is 4 inches shorter than Smith and does not play the same game. (Lucic also has Scheuermann's disease which is an unbelievably unique situation for an NHLer).

When you are 6 foot 7, the game you play changes, especially as a forward. It is truly difficult for forwards of than height to make an impact beyond fighting and sitting in front of the net on the powerplay. Maybe this is what the Flames wanted, but I don't know what else Hunter Smith could possibly become.

I think he would be hell on the forecheck too and in the corners.

Sure he is not going to be dangling through center ice or carrying the puck much but if he has a decent shot, can get in front of the net, and is relentless on the forecheck then he can be a productive NHLer.

I think the fact that a 6'7" forward is rare is that A) 6'7" people aren't that common to begin with and B) If you are 6' 7" and can play hockey every coach in the world wants you as a d-man that can clear the front of your own net.

Smith is a rare prospect in this regard since you rarely see a 6'7" forward who is close to a PPG to begin with, just doesn't happen.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That sentence suggests that you know little to nothing about this player

The old "big, must be a goon" argument

Could I not say the same back to you?

Do you know nothing of the player? People keep telling me I don't, but I don't know why. Hunter Smith isn't doing anything to suggest otherwise.

Hell Brian McGrattan was a point per game player in the OHL once. Does that mean he had the potential to be an impact forward?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

...I like it when teams go for homeruns at the draft. Why draft for 3rd and 4th line players when these are generally players you can pick up for free in free agency?

I mean, not many 4th line grinder types can be traded for 2nd round picks.

Originally Posted by polak

You seem to be ignoring the fact that 3rd and 4th line guys are a dime a dozen and that there are players in the AHL that could step up right now and be just as effective as most of them.

That's just not true. These sorts of players are easy to find until the day that a team does need them and can't simply trade for or call them up from the minors. You hope your second round picks turn into Stephan Yelles, Brandon Prusts, Kirk Maltbys, and Lance Boumas. Good luck finding one of them as an affordable free agent, or toiling away on your minor league affiliate.

In the end, it doesn't matter a lick in which round a team drafts which players, so long as they have the right players to win.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Is that a fact?

I don't think there is anyone in the NHL as short and small as Gaudreau, fudged NHL measurements and all.

There are a couple shorter, but I don't know of any who are as slight.

On the draft, IMO your goal is to draft NHlers, and if you get a second round guy who plays on the 4th line that's a win. Since, as we've been reminded in other threads, it's something like a 20% chance of a 2nd rounder even becoming regular NHler. So if in your 6 rounds you pick 3 guys who make it, you've done extremely well, even if it's the 4th rounder that plays top line minutes and the first rounder gets traded for a lower draft pick in a deep draft.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I never said being 6'7" reduces your chances of being an NHLer. I said it reduces your chances of becoming an impact forward.

I'm now seeing people calling me defensive. I don't know why. Nothing in my posts so far have been defensive.

Also seeing Lucic brought up as a comparable. Lucic is 4 inches shorter than Smith and does not play the same game. (Lucic also has Scheuermann's disease which is an unbelievably unique situation for an NHLer).

When you are 6 foot 7, the game you play changes, especially as a forward. It is truly difficult for forwards of than height to make an impact beyond fighting and sitting in front of the net on the powerplay. Maybe this is what the Flames wanted, but I don't know what else Hunter Smith could possibly become.

To the first bold: silly argument - Phil Esposito was huge in his time. So was Beliveau. Being tall doesn't reduce your chances of being a good player.

To the second bold: this is coming straight out your butthole. I challenge you to demonstrate something to back that claim up.

[Ashasx]

6'1" Phil Esposito? 6'3" Jean Beliveau?

As for my second point, how do I need to back it up? How can I? I look at Brian Boyle and he can't play the same. Just as Gaudreau can't play like players who are 6 feet tall, the game Hunter Smith plays is not comparable to those who are much shorter than he is.

Every year, every draft, we see teams hyped up about drafting these 6'5"+ monsters. Everyone is looking for the next Chara. But it seems that most of these players have such a disadvantage over others that it becomes a detriment, especially for forwards. For a defenceman, foot speed is not as important as it is for a forward.

Hunter Smith was facing a handicap before we even drafted him.

You can bet that I am going to cheer him on and hope he comes a player for us. But I just don't see any real examples of what kind of player he can be besides a 4th line guy. That doesn't get me excited.

This is nothing personal. I'm trying to look at this as if I were evaluating the draft choices of another team.

[GioforPM]

I think the large juniors who score better in the NHL than
perhaps projected based on junior stats probably matches up pretty well compared to small juniors who light it up in junior but can't make it in the NHL (often due to size, like a Brad Moran). And even if this kid is too slow to be a top 6 guy in the NHL, he must have some hands and can be an effective role player.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You hope your second round picks turn into Stephan Yelles, Brandon Prusts, Kirk Maltbys, and Lance Boumas.

Exactly!

Ashex is now just moving the goal posts by choosing different words like "star", "impact player" and "valuable"...

All of those guys are valuable and impactful to a winning team.

In essence, he's trying to insinuate unless you get a 1st/2nd line talent with a 2nd round pick it's a waste, which is nonsense.

If Smith ends up playing on the 3rd or 4th line and chipping in more offense than average for a large physical RW (a position we need depth in) it's a huge win of a pick for us.

[codynw]

This thread sucks.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If Gaudreau's measurements are fudged (they probably are) then so is everybody else.

You would probably be safe subtracting a inch from every player in the NHL.

Really? So you think that player heights and weights are exaggerated?

You get more tedious by the day.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Could I not say the same back to you?

Do you know nothing of the player? People keep telling me I don't, but I don't know why. Hunter Smith isn't doing anything to suggest otherwise.

Hell Brian McGrattan was a point per game player in the OHL once. Does that mean he had the potential to be an impact forward?

People say this to you because you talk about him like he is a goon (again comparing him to McGrattan here).

He is not a goon. If you have watched him play you would know this.

But your inaccurate assessment of him suggests that you have not watched him play much.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Really? So you think that player heights and weights are exaggerated?

You get more tedious by the day.

Yes, I absolutely do. Most professional sports leagues do.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

People say this to you because you talk about him like he is a goon (again comparing him to McGrattan here).

He is not a goon. If you have watched him play you would know this.

But your inaccurate assessment of him suggests that you have not watched him play much.

He's not a "goon" as we understand it at the NHL level.

In fact, many enforcers who play in the NHL today were quite good in their junior leagues and were counted on for more than just using their fists.

That does not mean they should have been projected as anything else as an NHLer.