[Trade] Glencross to Washington for a 2015 2nd and 2015 3rd round pick (WSH) (Archive)

[AC]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Oh great this just came out at the Sloan Analytics conference

@CraigCustance: Data shows Datsyuk, Briere, Okposo, Eriksson score more clutch goals than comparable players.

@CraigCustance: Curtis Glencross highlighted as a player whose goals come in less meaningful situations compared to league average.

He had the tying goal in the final seconds vs NJ earlier this year. Maybe his only clutch goal, but it was awesome nonetheless.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Oh great this just came out at the Sloan Analytics conference

@CraigCustance: Data shows Datsyuk, Briere, Okposo, Eriksson score more clutch goals than comparable players.

@CraigCustance: Curtis Glencross highlighted as a player whose goals come in less meaningful situations compared to league average.

What's their definition of "clutch"? I don't tend to buy into the concept in general but I'm curious as to how they would define it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Parallex

What's their definition of "clutch"? I don't tend to buy into the concept in general but I'm curious as to how they would define it.

Sounds pretty subjective. I get game-winning or tying goals. But isn't the first goal of the game, or first for the team (unless you are losing 9-0) still pretty important? And lots of goals are tying or go ahead at the time, but don't turn out that way. An ENG is important to salt away a win.

The only goals I would ever even think of discounting are "party time" goals in a runaway win. Or maybe points like Yakupov got in his rookie season at the end of the year, when their team was out and they played a lot against others in the same boat.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sounds pretty subjective. I get game-winning or tying goals. But isn't the first goal of the game, or first for the team (unless you are losing 9-0) still pretty important? And lots of goals are tying or go ahead at the time, but don't turn out that way. An ENG is important to salt away a win.

The only goals I would ever even think of discounting are "party time" goals in a runaway win. Or maybe points like Yakupov got in his rookie season at the end of the year, when their team was out and they played a lot against others in the same boat.

There has been another player on our roster famous for this in the past (basically the Yak - "no one is focusing on us because were terrible / already out of the playoff picture, so let me go get some points now!")

But, I would say within the game and the season it would be pretty hard to qualify any goals as non-important when the team is actually in a play off race.

[FlamesAddiction]

I find the "clutch" quality is more useful when trying to judge the value of players that don't score a lot, more than it is for already prolific scorers.

If a player is primarily relied on for a checking or energy role, but has the instincts and ability to step up at important times, then that is a good quality to have. If you are talking about a player that is always counted on to score and is played for that purpose, I don't think it is as meaningful... being "clutch" in that situation would be expected and not an added value. It would probably also be a more of a factor of circumstance.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I find the "clutch" quality is more useful when trying to judge the value of players that don't score a lot, more than it is for already prolific scorers.

If a player is primarily relied on for a checking or energy role, but has the instincts and ability to step up at important times, then that is a good quality to have. If you are talking about a player that is always counted on to score and is played for that purpose, I don't think it is as meaningful... being "clutch" in that situation would be expected and not an added value. It would probably also be a more of a factor of circumstance.

Or not for points but for whole game performance when it really matters like say, Claude Lemieux [spits] in the POs.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The only goals I would ever even think of discounting are "party time" goals in a runaway win.

That and empty net goals. I don't think any other goal situations should ever be given less relative value.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Parallex

That and empty net goals. I don't think any other goal situations should ever be given less relative value.

ENG goals are huge. They generally put an end to the extra man attack.

[Bingo]

I think the Flames must have a late 1st or two 2nds or something price tag on the table and to date nobody has paid it.

If that proves to be too high and he gets nothing done he loses.
If someone steps up and he gets more for Glencross than Winnik/Jagr than he did a great job.

Still time.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think the Flames must have a late 1st or two 2nds or something price tag on the table and to date nobody has paid it.

If that proves to be too high and he gets nothing done he loses.
If someone steps up and he gets more for Glencross than Winnik/Jagr than he did a great job.

Still time.

I think what AC said in another thread really puts a point on it:

After tonight, Calgary doesn't play again until tuesday which gives them lots of time to make roster moves and decisions and still dress a full lineup for Tuesday.

Probably Sunday is when things really heat up for Calgary. Should see some players recalled, guys like Raymond and maybe stajan back on as 'roster players' and spots on the big club opened up via trade.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think the Flames must have a late 1st or two 2nds or something price tag on the table and to date nobody has paid it.

If that proves to be too high and he gets nothing done he loses.
If someone steps up and he gets more for Glencross than Winnik/Jagr than he did a great job.

Still time.

I agree.

Particularly with Burke's influence (ie. Cammy situation) it seems like Treliving is going to play hard ball and wait for a team to get desperate, which I wouldn't be surprised to see happen given the market for F rentals this year and the injuries around the league.

If nobody bites, meh, we have Glencross for our playoff push. Yes it's negative that we would get nothing for a pending UFA (again) but not the end of the world.

Either way it's getting resolved soon obviously.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by heep223

I agree.

Particularly with Burke's influence (ie. Cammy situation) it seems like Treliving is going to play hard ball and wait for a team to get desperate, which I wouldn't be surprised to see happen given the market for F rentals this year and the injuries around the league.

If nobody bites, meh, we have Glencross for our playoff push. Yes it's negative that we would get nothing for a pending UFA (again) but not the end of the world.

Either way it's getting resolved soon obviously.

The extent of Gio's injury will no doubt play into this. If he's out short term we'll play hard ball to the end. If he's gone for an extended period, we're more likely to take what we can get, even if it isn't as much as we originally hoped.

[kyuss275]

With 3 days off, today would be a good day to trade Glencross. Give the flames the chance to practice lines without him. If ,and it's a big if , the GM was adding roster players for help, getting them in now to practice with the team before Philly would be big.

Truthfully I don't think the flames are going to add players. The price seems to high in what they need. They need a top 6 forward, and need at least a # 5 dman. Don't think it's worth the cost. As for Glencross I think they have to wait for Vermette to be traded. I'm guessing Glencross does not get traded until March 2nd.

[Moneyhands23]

Well boys and girls!!!! It's a hockey fans 2nd Christmas weekend!!!!! And like all kids at Christmas some will be having a merry time getting what they asked for. Others will look at the weekend wishing they had gotten what they wanted and being pouty...

Only time will tell for us Flames fans!!!

[sureLoss]

per Friedman on HNIC

Flames are shortening the list of buyers and want to make the move before Monday but no guarantees

[Mattman]

Tlusty- RW
Winik- RW
Jagr- RW
Bergenhiem- LW
Vermette- C/LW
Sharp- LW

Glenncross' winger competition list:

Lupul- RW There could be something here, if he does get moved it will be > Vermette's return. But he does have a sketchy injury record.

Zucarillo-RW He might have some of the best hands and speed of others on this list and although he's 5"7, he is quit a chippy/energetic player (Paul Byron).

Eriksson- RW/LW To be honest I don't see him getting moved. Boston is still considered a top Eastern team, which probably means they are buying, not selling. I'm not sure which teams would want him either.

Stewart- RW Good and gritty player defiantly will provide good depth for a playoff team.

Cole- LW Having a good season but still 36 years old.


At this point there look like more wingers popping up everyday. I think Glencross will get moved before deadline day. But the number of teams willing to acquire Glencross, and the number of teams on his list may be getting less.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Tlusty- RW
Winik- RW
Jagr- RW
Bergenhiem- LW
Vermette- C/LW

Glenncross' winger competition list:

Sharp- LW Great veteran playoff leader, mostly likely headed Washington as that's where every single rumor of him is directed.

Lupul- RW There could be something here, if he does get moved it will be > Vermette's return. But he does have a sketchy injury record.

Zucarillo-RW He might have some of the best hands and speed of others on this list and although he's 5"7, he is quit a chippy/energetic player (Paul Byron).

Eriksson- RW/LW To be honest I don't see him getting moved. Boston is still considered a top Eastern team regardless of their play currently. I'm not sure which teams would want him either.

Stewart- RW Good and gritty player defiantly will provide good depth for a playoff team.

Cole- LW Having a good season but still 36 years old.


At this point there look like more wingers popping up everyday. I think Glencross will get moved before deadline day. But the number of teams willing to acquire Glencross, and the number of teams on his list may be getting less.

Take Sharp out of it. Was reported by the team his list of teams will not be issued util after the deadline. He's staying in CHI.

[Hackey]

I'm getting worried were not going to see a good return for Glencross. I just hope it's at least a 2nd.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I'm getting worried were not going to see a good return for Glencross. I just hope it's at least a 2nd.

Stay strong, there will be an entire deadline show to get this one done...

[Badgers Nose]

It's crazy seeing so many deals before the deadline.

Makes me think there might be significant hockey deals this year.