Man stabbed, then decapitated on grey hound bus

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by polak

Wasn't it you who said that these patients are prone to thinking they're cured and not taking their medication?

Nope I said that my experience is limited to my mate's wife. She takes her meds she is a wonderful person, she doesn't take them she has all sorts of issues.


It appears that the experts in this field think that if he is medicated he is not "mentally unstable".

I like others have expressed concerns that he might be like my mate's wife and stop taking his medication if he thinks he is ok.

Does this mean that all people in Mr Li's or my mate's wifes condition stop taking their medications.....I don't know.

[rubecube]

I'd wager that Li is probably at a higher risk of harming himself if left unsupervised than he is of harming others.

[polak]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'd wager that Li is probably at a higher risk of harming himself if left unsupervised than he is of harming others.

That's fair. Now that he has recieved medical help and has been correctly diagnosed, I don't think he's a bad person. I'm just obviously not thrilled about the process.

[peter12]

I really do believe that the current paradigm in psychiatry robs patients of their free-will, and provides a very cloudy view of personal morality.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by pylon

Instead of zeroing in on the obviously hyperbolic part of my statement, why don't you address the rest of it? I see next to nobody giving two sh#ts about the other 40 some odd people who's lives will never be the same.

I have sympathy for the passengers on the bus, the driver, the mother of the victim and the RCMP and first repsonders on the scene. They didn't ask for what happened in the same manner that Li didn't ask for schizophrenia. Everybodies lives including Li's have been changed forever.

Then we had RCMP officer Ken Barker who comitted suicide after years of struggling from PTSD from the incident.

Shari and Barker’s sister, Wendy Walder, said he did get psychiatric help while with the RCMP and during his short retirement, but they both said the force has to do more to address the stigma attached to its members battling mental illness.

Walder said her brother’s treatment was coming along — and while he was still a dog handler, he was stationed at the airport and bus depots instead of responding to slayings — but last fall things began changing.

“With Vince Li getting in the paper about his walks, he started getting flashbacks,” she said.

“It was a very rapid decline in the last six months. He sent text messages like ‘I think I’m too broken to ever be fixed’ and he would also say ‘I wish I had cancer because then people would understand.’”

The two women rescued Barker from a suicide attempt in May, but no one got to him in time this past weekend.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...beheading.html

Yes I sympathise with what Li is going through BUT that doesn't mean that myself or anyone else here doesn't feel for the other people involved.

It greatly saddens me the the incident happened in the first place. No mother should ever have to bury their son and the victims mother has the greatest burden to bear.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

I really do believe that the current paradigm in psychiatry robs patients of their free-will, and provides a very cloudy view of personal morality.

That sounds like an obfuscating way to say that you don't believe that mental illness impacts personal decisions as much as one's own choices/morality, or am I misreading you?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by pylon

Li's manifestation of Schizophrenia however, has proven to be lethal. And IMO, that is point where I would draw the line, and argue for lifetime institutionalization.

He been institionalized for close to 7 years and in that time has not had another psychotic episode. He's been a model prisoner and his meds seem to be working.

Escorted day passes for where he can work would be as far as I would go. His medication needs to be constantly monitored to be sure he's taking it.

I just don't see the value in locking him up for life. It further stigmatises his illness and might prevent those who think they might have it from coming forward.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by polak

I don't think anyone who had such a bad episode that they almost ended a life (intentionally - in the sense that this wasn't just manslaughter) should ever be allowed to be unsupervised in public again. He is unable to control his mind and it has shown to be a danger to others. Just like a murderer who shows no remorse for his crime, someone with mental disability that leads them on mudering rampages is incapable of guaranteeing that they won't go one again without medication. When you leave them unsupervised their is a very real risk of them fleeing and going unmedicated.

The system is broken.

This guy was unable to control his mind, went on a complete psychotic murdering rampage through the Quebec parliament shooting it up killing three and injuring 13.

Today? He is a productive member of society working (and doing very well at it) in construction in the National Capital Region. Has been doing so for close to the last 20 years without incident.

The system worked for him.

Originally Posted by pylon

Li's manifestation of Schizophrenia however, has proven to be lethal. And IMO, that is point where I would draw the line, and argue for lifetime institutionalization.

Same point.
Lortie's manifestation of Schiziophrenia was lethal.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Bagor

This guy was unable to control his mind, went on a complete psychotic murdering rampage through the Quebec parliament shooting it up killing three and injuring 13.

Today? He is a productive member of society working (and doing very well at it) in construction in the National Capital Region. Has been doing so for close to the last 20 years without incident.

The system worked for him.


Same point.
Lortie's manifestation of Schiziophrenia was lethal.

someone that murdered 3 people is walking around free and you think the system works?

the system is broken

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

someone that murdered 3 people is walking around free and you think the system works?

the system is broken

Yes, because the system isn't continuing to punish him for a disease he didn't choose to have and a crime he didn't choose to commit.

[Flames_Gimp]

but the system continues to punish the victims by letting pos murderers walk

[Flames_Gimp]

sorry i'm on the side of the victims and the rights of innocent people trumps the rights of killers in my eyes

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

but the system continues to punish the victims by letting pos murderers walk

How is that punishing the victims in this case?

I get the feeling if instead of mental illness, it was some mental disability from birth like Down's syndrome, people would be less prone to hold a grudge..

[Nage Waza]

I still don't get why every murderer is not prescribed medication and then released? Why just this guy? Why not pedophiles as well?

Sorry, I don't care if he is 100% cured, he should spend the rest of his life in jail.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Wormius

How is that punishing the victims in this case?

I get the feeling if instead of mental illness, it was some mental disability from birth like Down's syndrome, people would be less prone to hold a grudge..

If a guy with Down's syndrome murdered someone, I hope they would be removed from society forever.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I still don't get why every murderer is not prescribed medication and then released? Why just this guy? Why not pedophiles as well?

Because murdering and molesting are not indicative of a mental illness.

[cracher]

Not surprising that this is the only topic where the usual CP PC police don't come out with both guns drawn.

Seeing some pretty bigoted statements here (and, yah, I know it's a bit weird to see it this way). I just can't wrap my head around murderers being a uniform, amorphous mass. Pig-guy Picton is not the same guy as that father who mercy-murdered his terminally ill and suffering daughter a bunch of years ago (but both brought up on the same charge). IMO, there is a line drawn somewhere. I'm not going to argue if society finds certain situations/circumstances where you can legitimately try to rehabilitate or be lenient to a murderer.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

but the system continues to punish the victims by letting pos murderers walk

How exactly does it punish the victims further?

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Because murdering and molesting are not indicative of a mental illness.

i would argue that pedophiles and molesters are sick in the head as well

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by rubecube

How exactly does it punish the victims further?

obviously not the dead victims but families, you don't think its punishment watching your family members' killers walk free?