As twisted as it sounds I would like to see, for one day, a major Western force fight ISIS with the same rules of engagement that ISIS fights will. Ignore popular opinion, ignore international law, ignore moral stances. Just one day, to see what would happen.
/morbidcuriosity
nothing good, that is what will happen.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
As twisted as it sounds I would like to see, for one day, a major Western force fight ISIS with the same rules of engagement that ISIS fights will. Ignore popular opinion, ignore international law, ignore moral stances. Just one day, to see what would happen.
/morbidcuriosity
I'd rather that we didn't lose our humanity in a fight with a group that has already lost theirs.
We can kill them and they'll be every bit as dead as someone who's head was sawed off. We can imprison them in the deepest darkest prisons that we find.
But at the end of the day there has to be a post war phase that works.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
As twisted as it sounds I would like to see, for one day, a major Western force fight ISIS with the same rules of engagement that ISIS fights will. Ignore popular opinion, ignore international law, ignore moral stances. Just one day, to see what would happen.
/morbidcuriosity
Are you wondering aloud if this approach might affect morale or commitment among ISIL recruits and sympathisers? I can assure you that the only harden their resolve. Religious movements and ideologies tend to thrive under persecution.
This would be a very, very bad idea.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
I've never understood the guys that just sit there as they are getting their heads sawed off. I hypothesize that they must be drugged out of their mind.
How would you not fight to your last breath with the inevitability of death looming?
If you mean when the actual sawing starts happening, I can't really comment as I've been fortunate enough not to have seen any of that.
But the events leading up to the beheadings are 'rehearsed.' First couple times, they probably do try to fight and show high emotions, they probably don't say what they are forced to etc... Then they 'fake' kill them, turn off the cameras and go back to torturing. After repeated takes, they pretty much are just reading from a script and very possibly aren't expecting that time to be the real-deal.
And, as sad as it is, death might not be completely unwelcomed to the victims.
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Is it messed up that this angers me as much as beheadings and burnings?
These ####ing cavemen.
I hear ya. Reminds me of the Taliban in Afghanistan blowing up the giant Buddhist statues carved in the cliff faces about 6-12 months even before September 11th 2001. Was following that even before the fight came to the US.
Yeah, I believe I read somewhere (probably Reddit) that it's likely they rehearse these beheadings many times in front of cameras, and never actually do it. Then, all of a sudden, they do it for real one time. It probably catches the victim off guard.
I still find it fascinating that as anti-West as these people are they sure like their cell phones and twitter accounts and other modern technology to tell us all about their prophet and what he apparently wants them to do.
For sure. Though maybe not as uncommon and removed as you think. I've always felt similarly about the fundamentalist Christians in the west who are unabashedly anti-science, close their minds to reason, and actively try to close their kids and society to it by writing new laws, yet love to brag about America's power because they have 'the bomb' and all the other weapons and toys that science gave the world.
It just makes no sense, and reeks of the worst hypocrisy.
Like these guys, it just feels like if your anti tech, and anti science, you shouldn't get to use any of it. Course, that's not the way the world, or religious propaganda and control, works. Do as I say, don't do as I do sort of thing.
As twisted as it sounds I would like to see, for one day, a major Western force fight ISIS with the same rules of engagement that ISIS fights will. Ignore popular opinion, ignore international law, ignore moral stances. Just one day, to see what would happen.
/morbidcuriosity
So bring nukes onto the table then? Because that is the next logical step. No morals = we have these weapons = use them.
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Originally Posted by JobHopper
The thing is, my posts, thoughts and insights may be my opinions but they're also quite factual.
It's an interesting conundrum. To be honest, a lot of the time when I think about it "I just think #### 'em". But then I wonder... why are those girls who willingly went over there considered victims or poor, naive, brainwashed innocents (and let's do everything we can to get them back) and yet the males are considered to be scary psychopaths?
Likewise, why do we laud those Canadians (and Americans, and whoever else) who go over to fight on what "we" consider to be the good side? Are some of those guys not psychos looking to get their jollies though killing? There was a piece on the news last week, that wasn't discussed much, showing Kurdish fighters parading around the bloody, decapitated heads of their opponents. Is that not just as barbaric?
There are victims and barbarians on all sides. Warfare has never been black and white.
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Yeah, I believe I read somewhere (probably Reddit) that it's likely they rehearse these beheadings many times in front of cameras, and never actually do it. Then, all of a sudden, they do it for real one time. It probably catches the victim off guard.
Its the deer in the headlight thing too, after so much time in captivity and being mistreated, and poorly fed, you almost welcome death. You see it coming and your body and brain just shrug their shoulders and say get it over with.
I wouldn't be surprised if they drug the crap out of them too.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
It's an interesting conundrum. To be honest, a lot of the time when I think about it "I just think #### 'em". But then I wonder... why are those girls who willingly went over there considered victims or poor, naive, brainwashed innocents (and let's do everything we can to get them back) and yet the males are considered to be scary psychopaths?
Likewise, why do we laud those Canadians (and Americans, and whoever else) who go over to fight on what "we" consider to be the good side? Are some of those guys not psychos looking to get their jollies though killing? There was a piece on the news last week, that wasn't discussed much, showing Kurdish fighters parading around the bloody, decapitated heads of their opponents. Is that not just as barbaric?
There are victims and barbarians on all sides. Warfare has never been black and white.
I don't believe that the girls are targeted and recruited in the same day. They're probably promised a simpler life style, they are promised a heroic husband, and they're told that they'll be doing more humanitarian work like helping the wounded and sick and teaching kids.
then the horror really hits.
You do have a valid point on the second part, I'm not onboard with letting people free lance for the Kurds, But I think its easy to be recruited to fight someone like ISIS, you are actually fighting a pretty evil organization.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Its the deer in the headlight thing too, after so much time in captivity and being mistreated, and poorly fed, you almost welcome death. You see it coming and your body and brain just shrug their shoulders and say get it over with.
I wouldn't be surprised if they drug the crap out of them too.
One of the first beheadings back in Iraq at the outset went badly wrong for AQ in Iraq, they had an Italian security guard who, when he realized what was about to happen, started shouting 'see how a man can die, vive Italia' or words to that effect, then managed to get up and give one of the guys a good boot, I think they ended up shooting him, as they couldn't control the guy.
I don't believe that the girls are targeted and recruited in the same day. They're probably promised a simpler life style, they are promised a heroic husband, and they're told that they'll be doing more humanitarian work like helping the wounded and sick and teaching kids.
That seems like a very patriarchal way of looking at it. How do you know they're not as bloodthirsty as their male counterparts? Conversely, how do you know some of the males aren't looking forward to tending to the sick and needy?
I just think it's interesting the way the media plays up that the females must be promised sweetness and lollipops and that they need to be rescued, and that the males are savage scumbags whose passports should be burned immediately. In all likelihood, there's probably an element of destructiveness in some of the females who go, and there's an element of naivety in some of the males who go.
That seems like a very patriarchal way of looking at it. How do you know they're not as bloodthirsty as their male counterparts? Conversely, how do you know some of the males aren't looking forward to tending to the sick and needy?
I just think it's interesting the way the media plays up that the females must be promised sweetness and lollipops and that they need to be rescued, and that the males are savage scumbags whose passports should be burned immediately. In all likelihood, there's probably an element of destructiveness in some of the females who go, and there's an element of naivety in some of the males who go.
ITP: accuses opinion of recruitment processes for Jihadi organization who stones women for adultery and forces them to be completely covered, and explicitly states the intended roles of women in their society as homemakers after schooling until just 14 of being patriarchal.
That seems like a very patriarchal way of looking at it. How do you know they're not as bloodthirsty as their male counterparts? Conversely, how do you know some of the males aren't looking forward to tending to the sick and needy?
I just think it's interesting the way the media plays up that the females must be promised sweetness and lollipops and that they need to be rescued, and that the males are savage scumbags whose passports should be burned immediately. In all likelihood, there's probably an element of destructiveness in some of the females who go, and there's an element of naivety in some of the males who go.
There was an article not that long ago that specifically talked about how girls were recruited and how ISIS has very good specialized woman that targeted girls through social media and they weren't promoting based on a fighting role for woman, but that they would teach children, get married have lots of kids and do what amounted to humanitarian works.
That's not to say that they don't reach out to girls who are looking to actively fight for ISIS, however while they are promised this it is discouraged by ISIS as they believe that woman should cheer for their men, and pump out babies. The most action woman see is enforcing the strict morality laws against other woman.
Of course most of these Western girls once they got over there weren't treated that well, and most of them were abused more because they came from the West.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Last edited by CaptainCrunch; 02-26-2015 at 05:44 PM.
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