[Trade] Glencross to Washington for a 2015 2nd and 2015 3rd round pick (WSH) (Archive)

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

I doubt that. Baertschi is in his third professional season and his numbers are trending down, which is the opposite direction you hope them to go. Baertschi just isn't showing enough to be considered a good prospect any more. The only thing making people believe that is the extraordinary success he experienced in a short stint four years ago. He's showed little since. The shine is off his star.

Look at Backlund starting at age 20 (first pro season), it isn't any more than impressive than Sven.

09/10 - AHL: 54GP, 32 Pts, .59 PPG
09/10 - NHL: 23GP, 10 Pts, .43 PPG
10/11 - NHL: 73GP, 25 Pts, .33 PPG
11/12 - NHL: 41GP, 11 Pts, .27 PPG
12/13 - NHL: 32GP, 16 Pts, .50 PPG
13/14 - NHL: 76GP, 39 Pts, .51 PPG
14/15 - NHL: 30GP, 16 Pts, .53 PPG

Now 25 years old.

NHL: 275 GP, 117 Pts, .43 PPG
AHL: 54GP, 32 Pts - .59 PPG

Now, Sven starting at age 20 (first pro season):

12/13 - AHL: 32GP, 26 Pts, .81 PPG
12/13 - NHL: 20GP, 10 Pts, .50 PPG
13/14 - NHL: 26GP, 11 Pts, .42 PPG
13/14 - AHL: 41GP, 29 Pts, .71 PPG
14/15 - NHL: 15GP, 4 Pts, .27 PPG
14/15 - AHL: 34GP, 22 Pts, .65 PPG

Now 22 years old.

NHL: 66 GP, 28 Pts, .42 PPG
AHL: 107 GP, 77 Pts, .72 PPG

You simply can't look at a prospect's personal stats nor can you view development as a straight line.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by skudr248

They were dumb enough to trade Forsberg for Erat.. Lets hope they're still dumb

Brian McLellan isn't George McPhee. Yeah he was AGM under him but still, persumably he saw what happened to McPhee after that trade. His coaching hire makes him smart in my books.

That's like some other team hoping the Flames will make another Gilmour for Leeman trade. Or another Stralman for a 3rd. Or another screwup an RFA offersheet really really badly.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Because he isn't productive enough when given those minutes, not because of some grand conspiracy to keep Glencross from scoring goals.



I don't even know why I'm bothering, but there you go. Calgary is the 10th highest scoring team in the league and Glencross is having trouble scoring goals. He's playing a diminished 3rd line role because Josh Jooris and Lance Bouma are playing better hockey. There's no question part of that is due to nagging injuries etc, but again, that's the problem with a guy who is/gets injured all the time.

And that is the question for the stretch drive and the years after. Will he be able to stay healthy? What happens if he gets chemistry (somewhere else) with a puck distributor?

The good thing is we shouldn't need to have this worry or concern. If the rebuild was going as normal rebuilds go, we would be a terrible non playoff team with a few rough diamonds and dreams of next year. I'd been happy to set Glencross free to get him away from this rebuilding hell. Problem is, playoff teams want him for a reason? And we should want to be a playoff team? So if were moving him, I hope its for the better of this team. 8 potential goals down the stretch would be nice.

[Muta]

With the trade market shrinking on capable, veteran wingers (Winnik / Bergenheim / Tlusty all gone), now is the time to prey upon the fears and anxieties of desperate GM's - preferably inexperienced ones.

C'mon Treliving, get a bidding war going.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Muta

With the trade market shrinking on capable, veteran wingers (Winnik / Bergenheim / Tlusty all gone), now is the time to prey upon the fears and anxieties of desperate GM's - preferably inexperienced ones.

C'mon Treliving, get a bidding war going.

who's left? Jagr? Stewart? Anybody else?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

It seems like the teams on Glencross' list should still be in play (except perhaps NAS and ANA). Must keep expectations in check!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Look at Backlund starting at age 20 (first pro season), it isn't any more than impressive than Sven.

Please stop comparing Baertschi with Backlund. Backlund was the only prospect in the system at the time that was worth a damn. He got a shot by default because there was no one else coming up behind him to compete with him. If he was in the system right now he would be screwed too. When you have competition for jobs you have to beat other players out. Baertschi is not beating anyone out for a job. He's getting beat out for a job by lesser players. As the system remains well stocked with up and coming players there are guys that have to let go to make room for guys who still have a realistic chance. Baertschi has to step up to show he still has potential to be a player or the Flames are probably advised to move on.

You can only invest so much in guys that don't have a potential to make it to the show or be top end AHL players. Baertschi hasn't even shown the ability to be a top AHL talent. He's a guy that might have some value to a team that believes he could get better with a change of scenery. I would suggest the Flames find a team like that and move on. They have better prospects and could use the room on the farm. At this point, I would much rather invest the time and energy in Klimchuk and get him as many quality playing opportunities as possible over the next two seasons and hope he finds the NHL level in a capacity Baertschi couldn't.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by devo22

who's left? Jagr? Stewart? Anybody else?

Erik Cole, Michael Ryder, Martin Havlat

Friedman also reported Rangers might shop Zucarello

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Erik Cole, Michael Ryder, Martin Havlat

Friedman also reported Rangers might shop Zucarello

Didn't he suggest they'd dump Zucarello and turn around and acquire someone else? May not if there's nobody left!

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Please stop comparing Baertschi with Backlund. Backlund was the only prospect in the system at the time that was worth a damn. He got a shot by default because there was no one else coming up behind him to compete with him. If he was in the system right now he would be screwed too. When you have competition for jobs you have to beat other players out. Baertschi is not beating anyone out for a job. He's getting beat out for a job by lesser players. As the system remains well stocked with up and coming players there are guys that have to let go to make room for guys who still have a realistic chance. Baertschi has to step up to show he still has potential to be a player or the Flames are probably advised to move on.

You can only invest so much in guys that don't have a potential to make it to the show or be top end AHL players. Baertschi hasn't even shown the ability to be a top AHL talent. He's a guy that might have some value to a team that believes he could get better with a change of scenery. I would suggest the Flames find a team like that and move on. They have better prospects and could use the room on the farm. At this point, I would much rather invest the time and energy in Klimchuk and get him as many quality playing opportunities as possible over the next two seasons and hope he finds the NHL level in a capacity Baertschi couldn't.

Any chance you can take this tired, off-topic Baertschi hating to one of the multitude of threads where it's already been discussed?

Really tiresome to read about this in a thread it has nothing to do with.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If it is a prospect Carrick or Bowey would be nice.

A Wotherspoon-Carrick/Bowey pairing could have some good potential in a few years.

Hell Wotherspoon-Carrick might be a better pairing then our 3rd pairing right now.

They won't. Think of the Winnik deal, thats what Glencross will get.

EDIT: Plus Sven? Still no way they move Bowey, he's a stud.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

They won't. Think of the Winnik deal, thats what Glencross will get.

The proposal was Glencross+Sven.

[Poe969]

I think the Winnik deal helps Glencross' value; I think Glencross is a better player and now there are even less options out there for whoever is bidding on him. The teams have to "keep up with the Jones'" so to speak and if the pens made that deal then maybe the caps or rangers have to do something to improve too....

[Red Menace]

Just don't wait til the last minute and get nothing.....again

[RedMileDJ]

Christ. I hope this trade happens soon so that I can stop reading Glencross as 'GlenX'.

Freakin' annoying.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Just don't wait til the last minute and get nothing.....again

VS

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

Please stop comparing Baertschi with Backlund. Backlund was the only prospect in the system at the time that was worth a damn. He got a shot by default because there was no one else coming up behind him to compete with him. If he was in the system right now he would be screwed too. When you have competition for jobs you have to beat other players out. Baertschi is not beating anyone out for a job. He's getting beat out for a job by lesser players. As the system remains well stocked with up and coming players there are guys that have to let go to make room for guys who still have a realistic chance. Baertschi has to step up to show he still has potential to be a player or the Flames are probably advised to move on.

You can only invest so much in guys that don't have a potential to make it to the show or be top end AHL players. Baertschi hasn't even shown the ability to be a top AHL talent. He's a guy that might have some value to a team that believes he could get better with a change of scenery. I would suggest the Flames find a team like that and move on. They have better prospects and could use the room on the farm. At this point, I would much rather invest the time and energy in Klimchuk and get him as many quality playing opportunities as possible over the next two seasons and hope he finds the NHL level in a capacity Baertschi couldn't.

I'm not using him as a direct comparison. It was to illustrate that you can't look at a prospects development as a linear progression, nor can you write them off for "declining numbers" at this stage of their development.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Any chance you can take this tired, off-topic Baertschi hating to one of the multitude of threads where it's already been discussed?

Really tiresome to read about this in a thread it has nothing to do with.

Sure.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I think the Winnik deal helps Glencross' value; I think Glencross is a better player and now there are even less options out there for whoever is bidding on him. The teams have to "keep up with the Jones'" so to speak and if the pens made that deal then maybe the caps or rangers have to do something to improve too....

It seems like we did this last year too, thought how we would be happy if Cammy got similar returns as others who were traded before the deadline yet it didn't happen.

I really hope this doesn't happen again with Glencross and he walks for nothing.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by New Era

No, it wouldn't. When Backlund was in the situation Baertschi finds himself currently in, Backlund as the best prospect in the Flames system and no one else really pushing him at the position. Baertschi is not the best prospect for the Flames and has been bypassed by several players in the system at his position. Baertschi is at a crossroads and for good reason. He has not produced even remotely close to the level expected of him and shows limited potential to do so. He isn't a very good prospect any more and is one of those guys who may only achieve success in another organization where expectations are not at the same level.

He also did everything that was asked of him and more. Remember how skinny he used to be? Before his breakthrough year he hulked up, started sticking his nose in tough places that marginal players serious about an NHL career know they have to go to.