[Trade] Glencross to Washington for a 2015 2nd and 2015 3rd round pick (WSH) (Archive)

[Badgers Nose]

I'd kind of like this to be over already. If this week goes bad they will be sellers.

I'd like the kids to get some early playoff experience this year.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If it becomes a league-wide trend that pending UFAs are no longer dealt because the returns are low, that will be one thing. If the Flames are the only team holding on to UFAs because they overvalue their players, that's another. Weren't you the one leading the chorus mocking Cheveldayoff for overvaluing his own players and not getting deals done? So it's dumb and stubborn if another team takes that stance, but wise and principled if the Flames do?

Keep up the good fight, CliffFletcher.

This crusade you're on is in no way annoying. Your definitely on the right track to prove Flames fans are moronic and a bunch of hypocrites. There is nothing grating or pedantic about your long standing fight.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Sure. But fan speculation has no bearing on what NHL GMs are really proposing. It's just people making stuff up, and shouldn't be a yardstick to assess real trades and act disappointed in them.

Team A states that it is looking to trade a player
Team B is linked in some way to Team A (media, excessive scouting, 2nd player redundancy, team need)
Fan speculation ensues.

Glencross is leaked to be on the move
Anaheim is leaked to be the preferred destination of Glencross
Anaheim needs a top 6 LW for a playoff run
DSP has become redundant with the emergence of Rackell
Both DSP and Glencross rumoured or reported to be displeased with their usage
Fans speculate on a possible swap of players and value

DSP is traded for a player in the same value ballpark as was discussed here
Step 4 : Profit
So far, we're actually doing pretty well

[Otto-matic]

More Eric Francis smut but posting anyways.

Francis: ‘Glencross a guarantee to move’

“Brian Burke said the money and the term he wants are not unreasonable, but we’re certainly not paying them.”
So where is Glencross most likely to land?
“The usual suspects are Boston, Pittsburgh, the teams that rent a winger every single year,” Francis said. “His wish list did include Chicago, Anaheim, L.A., and Tampa Bay.”
Glencross, who has eight goals and 27 points in 50 games this season, has been relegated to third-line duty with Joe Colborne and Josh Jooris of late.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/f...uarantee-move/

[theTrumanShow]

I really wish this distraction was over with so the team can focus on making the playoffs. Flames will be lucky to get a 2nd rounder. I am guessing it will be a 3rd. Just wish this situation would end already. I thought his last game was his last game as a Flame?

[Poe969]

I wonder if he'd consider the islanders more after Leddy signed. I"m not sure if they're on his list or expanded list or whatever but I see them as building a pretty decent team, I wonder if he'd like to be a part of it or at least their cup run.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by theTrumanShow

I really wish this distraction was over with so the team can focus on making the playoffs. Flames will be lucky to get a 2nd rounder. I am guessing it will be a 3rd. Just wish this situation would end already. I thought his last game was his last game as a Flame?

No need for fans to form drama, or speculate there is drama when there is none. This has been going on all season, and hasn't been a distraction.

Duhatschek speaks on whether or not it's a distraction and makes some good points.

[Zevo]

Islanders have stated they aren't making any more moves and are happy with the team going forward. Doubt glencross goes there.

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You mean disappointment because like Cammalleri he doesn't get traded because that's what's going to happen if the Flames don't think they are getting value. If he gets dealt it's going to be a solid return otherwise he's not going to get dealt. And when I say solid return it's going to be a 2nd round pick or some sort of deal involving a decent prospect. Bottom line is if he gets dealt Flames fans will likely be happy with the return and if he doesn't get dealt then there may be some disappointment but if the days of big deadline deals are drying up then so be it. Flames have already established under the new management that they aren't into trading roster players for disappointing returns to help other teams out.

Do people really believe this kind of nonsense?
No GM in the league gives a damn that the Flames didn't trade Cammy away easily last year. They will continue to try and get our assets for as less a return as possible. The reputation of the Flames has no impact in a trade negotiation. And yes, if the market only allowed for a 3rd rounder from Cammy...then of course we should have taken it. Every sensible person knew there was 0% chance he was returning....

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Do people really believe this kind of nonsense?
No GM in the league gives a damn that the Flames didn't trade Cammy away easily last year. They will continue to try and get our assets for as less a return as possible. The reputation of the Flames has no impact in a trade negotiation. And yes, if the market only allowed for a 3rd rounder from Cammy...then of course we should have taken it. Every sensible person knew there was 0% chance he was returning....

If your bargaining position is "we will give him away for the best possible offer even if it's below what we want" then you have less power vs "if we don't get what we want we'll keep the player"

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Islanders have stated they aren't making any more moves and are happy with the team going forward. Doubt glencross goes there.

teams say a lot of things

[FlameZilla]

Apparently Friedman said on Sportsnet 960 that the Caps are interested in Glencross but they're not on his list.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Huge grain of salt on that... I mean what else is he going to say? "Yeah, my new boss seriously screwed the pooch on that one didn't he"?

The most likely answer is simply that Burke misjudged the market and as a result was left with no one to dance with at the end of the night.

Actually the most likely answer is the failed Kesler trade completely screwed up the market and held it up long enough that other GMs and Burke had no time to work out a Cammalleri trade since he was valued behind Gaborik, Moulson, etc based on his season to that date.

Surprised so many have conveniently forgot how much that Kesler non-trade held up the market and screwed with the value. If the deadline had been a day later or had the Nucks decided not to deal Kesler a day earlier a Cammalleri deal likely would've been negotiated. Burke ran out of time to get good value because of Kesler and the trickle down after that.

[Tinordi]

I really do think that we're in a new era for deadline deals. A couple of observations to support this.

The high quality rentals of yore are much less prevalent. Gone are the days that you can trade for high quality pending UFAs as most players of significance are signed for long-term after their RFA eligibility. That means that there is just generally lower stock and less value placed on it.

GMs have no safety net for bad deadline deals anymore. Should you trade away your 1sts or 2nds for a deadline guy that didn't pan out, then you could still tap the free agent market to continue your competitiveness for a time. But as related to the point above, there just isn't the quality anymore to inject from free agent markets.

As a result, the least costly way to insert talent into your lineup is from within. That means that trading 1sts and other future assets for now actually hurts the now too.

The league is moving to a younger man's league. A top players prime is now around 23-26, most GMs are starting to recognize this, and you basically can't get a top player in his prime without drafting one.

Parity means there's really very few true contenders that need to load up for one last push limiting the market. There calculation is more about rolling the dice then ensuring a conference final.

Draft picks and futures are more valuable at the draft where there is a larger pool of better players available for trade.

All this to say is that I think that last year's deadline is a harbinger not an outlier. I just don't think you'll see the value we are used to for rental players anymore.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Do people really believe this kind of nonsense?
No GM in the league gives a damn that the Flames didn't trade Cammy away easily last year. They will continue to try and get our assets for as less a return as possible. The reputation of the Flames has no impact in a trade negotiation. And yes, if the market only allowed for a 3rd rounder from Cammy...then of course we should have taken it. Every sensible person knew there was 0% chance he was returning....

What exactly are you talking about? Burke showed last year he's not going to trade a roster contributor to another team at the deadline for peanuts. It really doesn't matter what other teams think as if they lowball the Flames they won't get the player they are interested in. Was it a 3rd round pick offered? Was that even clarified? A late 3rd round pick isn't that great of a return that you should sell yourself short so the next year teams know that if they hold off to ten minutes until the end of the deadline they can lowball you again. If every team caved in because that was the best offer available the deadline would transform into an annual buyer's market. There is a long term picture here and a 3rd round pick is pretty small in the overall scheme of things.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Eric Stephens ‏@icemancometh
Murray confirmed that GMs asking for Theodore or Ritchie for a rental is a very short conversation.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

If your bargaining position is "we will give him away for the best possible offer even if it's below what we want" then you have less power vs "if we don't get what we want we'll keep the player"

Once you start accepting lowball offers you set a precedent that other teams will follow in negotiating with you as they will just wait until 10 minutes before the hour and offer a crap pick because that's what you accepted last year making your bargaining position much weaker. Any team that really wants Glencross knows they are going to have to meet the very lowest the Flames are willing to trade him for or they aren't getting him.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Once you start accepting lowball offers you set a precedent that other teams will follow in negotiating with you as they will just wait until 10 minutes before the hour and offer a crap pick because that's what you accepted last year making your bargaining position much weaker. Any team that really wants Glencross knows they are going to have to meet the very lowest the Flames are willing to trade him for or they aren't getting him.

More to the point, if you never hold to the bluff of "we won't trade the player for nothing" and end up trading him, how believable is it the next time?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

More to the point, if you never hold to the bluff of "we won't trade the player for nothing" and end up trading him, how believable is it the next time?

The other consideration that way though is not over valuing your assets relative to market prices.

GMs will obviously always try to buy at the right price, and no one wants to sell at the wrong price, but if at the end of the game you've still got a hand full of cards you didn't play, that's probably a sign your expectations are out of alignment.

Cammalleri may be been priced at a 1st and been valued at a 2nd.

In this scenario, who's valuation is correct? If something is priced a certain way, and doesn't sell, that's generally a sign the price is too high.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If it becomes a league-wide trend that pending UFAs are no longer dealt because the returns are low, that will be one thing. If the Flames are the only team holding on to UFAs because they overvalue their players, that's another. Weren't you the one leading the chorus mocking Cheveldayoff for overvaluing his own players and not getting deals done? So it's dumb and stubborn if another team takes that stance, but wise and principled if the Flames do?

Cheveldayoff finally made his first player for player deal in how many years? You are comparing a GM scared to head on face the issues with his team to a GM looking to attain an asset at the deadline for a pending UFA? Apples to oranges and a poor argument.