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Old 02-22-2015, 11:10 PM   #1061
Jay Random
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Originally Posted by Rerun View Post
No one stated that Gaudreau needs legs that large (all that was mentioned was that it would be nice if Gaudreau added an extra 10 lbs ... evenly distributed over his skinny 150 lb frame of course).
On the contrary, saillias accused Textcritic of ‘finding a strong person grotesque’. This implies that Martin St. Louis is the definition of a strong person, and anybody who hasn't got leg muscles of that size is not strong. It also states flat out that Textcritic finds strength as such grotesque. These are both silly assertions, and they are what I was taking issue with.

No doubt Johnny Gaudreau could use a few extra pounds of muscle. That doesn't mean that he has to look like a professional bodybuilder. It isn't an either-or proposition.
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Old 02-22-2015, 11:18 PM   #1062
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Johnny with Jones is actually a good idea. Jones is big, strong, drives the net and he has untapped potential. Johnny needs to be with other players that have an offensive threat but are also big. I don't like Johnny with Monahan because it's too easy to match. We have one line with most of the talent, not enough to worry about.
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Old 02-22-2015, 11:26 PM   #1063
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We have one line with most of the talent, not enough to worry about.
Unfortunately, that's true. But it's also a separate issue from team size. The team simply hasn't got enough talented forwards to spread the skill around.

Here's hoping Bennett and Poirier (and possibly others) change that next year.

I know some posters are suggesting a Gaudreau–Bennett–Poirier line, but I can't help thinking next year would be too soon for that. A sophomore and two rookies on the same line? OK for a fourth line, but not if you're depending on them for everyday scoring. Bennett + Gaudreau + an experienced RW with some size would be a good combination. Unfortunately, the only big, experienced RW on the team right now is Jones, and I suspect he is not the answer either. But I think you're right in that he's the best option on the roster.
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:21 AM   #1064
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Unfortunately, that's true. But it's also a separate issue from team size. The team simply hasn't got enough talented forwards to spread the skill around.

Here's hoping Bennett and Poirier (and possibly others) change that next year.

I know some posters are suggesting a Gaudreau–Bennett–Poirier line, but I can't help thinking next year would be too soon for that. A sophomore and two rookies on the same line? OK for a fourth line, but not if you're depending on them for everyday scoring. Bennett + Gaudreau + an experienced RW with some size would be a good combination. Unfortunately, the only big, experienced RW on the team right now is Jones, and I suspect he is not the answer either. But I think you're right in that he's the best option on the roster.
It may be too soon for that, but I would bet that you do see that line together occasionally. Why?

Baertschi.

He needs to clear waivers. For all intents and purposes, I consider Baertschi a rookie here. I know he doesn't qualify, but I just can't call him an 'NHL player' yet until he breaks-through. Where would he slot into the lineup?

Flames have a relative luxury in that they are rolling a 4th line with Stajan as a center, and are rotating guys through the lineup like Colborne/Jones/Bollig or whomever else falls out of favor. Sure, Poirier, Baertschi, Jooris, etc., will probably all see some time on the 4th line, but let's try to figure out lines.

Checking line - this is Backlund's line. I don't think you can throw Poirier or Baertschi on this line. I think Jones + Bouma will more than likely be the wingers here. They will see the hardest minutes. Makes sense to me. That is about the only line that makes sense.

Stajan on the 4th line - let's just assume Bollig + Colborne for now. Once again, Jones/Jooris/Colborne/whomever else will rotate through, including rookies I would think.

Leaves Monahan and Bennett as the two remaining centers (and I base this on thinking that Bennett will NOT start on the wing unless somehow the Flames don't make the playoffs and end up winning the lottery).

Bennett will be sheltered. In Monahan's first season, it was Baertschi - Monahan - Hudler for a while. Hartley used 2 rookies with a vet, and they saw extremely sheltered minutes. I think he will go this route again with Bennett - Poirier, or Baertschi - Bennett. In my mind, Poirier and Bennett are much more complimentary players as they play at a high pace, and both can make plays at high speed.

So you have Monahan left. I would say Hudler will be on that line. Do you keep Gaudreau on this line, and run with:
Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler
Baertschi - Bennett - Poirier

Or do you run with:
Baertschi - Monahan - Hudler
Gaudreau - Bennett - Poirier

I do see Gaudreau and Baertschi flip-flopping somewhat. The more you analyze it, the more difficult it is to come up with proper lines.

I am inclined to believe that Hartley will not run with 3 rookies on one line, even with very sheltered minutes. Gaudreau is a fairly good backchecker, and Bennett and Poirier are supposedly 2-way players. This is a line that is going to have to be very sheltered. However, all 3 players are not only very fast, but they also play at a very high pace and are all able to make plays at high-speed.

Monahan isn't that type. Though he has definitely increased his skating ability, I wouldn't call him a player that 'plays at a high pace'. Baertschi is a guy that I don't think plays at that pace either. It isn't to say that either one of them is 'slow' - I would classify them both as average at worst, but not 'speedsters' out there. Hudler on the RW on that line is a complimentary player there.

So how does the lineup look?

Baertschi - Monahan - Hudler
Bouma - Backlund - Jones
Gaudreau - Bennett - Poirier
Raymond - Stajan - Colborne

It is impossible to come up with line combinations without leaving guys with term on their contracts out.

Jooris
Bollig
Byron

Then you have other youth who need waivers to be sent down (IIRC):
Granlund
Reinhart
Shore

Then you have other players like Wolf pushing to make the team.

I know I am forgetting more - these were just off the top of my head as I was trying to remember who I am forgetting.

Treliving has a LOT of work to do this upcoming off-season trying to figure out which players they keep, and how they will make room on the team.

Treliving will be forced to move some of the youth for picks, or hopefully in a 'quantity for quality' trade (that rarely, RARELY happens), or simply lose some on the waiver wire. I think some players will safely pass through waivers - at least at the start of the season when all the teams are trying to get their own players down. There are a number that I can't imagine would pass through waivers though - namely Baertschi. Whether you still like him as a prospect or not, I don't think many (if any) GMs are going to pass up the chance to have a free look at Baertschi in the NHL.
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:06 AM   #1065
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No one stated that Gaudreau needs legs that large (all that was mentioned was that it would be nice if Gaudreau added an extra 10 lbs ... evenly distributed over his skinny 150 lb frame of course). An extra 10 lbs of muscle won't destroy his game and in fact it would probably help him when battling for control of the puck or when taking a hit.
There have been numerous posters over the last couple of years who have in fact suggested that Gaudreau needs to train his core and legs in order to develop a frame like St. Louis. What virtually all of them miss is what Jay Random has pointed out: St. Louis is a freak of nature. In interviews, he has often commented on the fact that he has always had thick, stocky legs. Gaudreau is constructed nothing like St. Louis.

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As I said before, I just don't understand why so many people are resistant to this... An extra 10 lbs certainly won't hurt his play and most likely will help his NHL career.
You are certain that an extra 10 lbs. will not hurt his play? How is it that you are certain? I'm not convinced. Jarome Iginla added weight in the 2005–06 season in hopes of increasing his effectiveness along the boards. He increased his weight by less than 10%, and it didn't work at all. While I expect Gaudreau to gradually gain a little weight as he matures into adulthood, I don't think that an arbitrary assignment of weight will help him. 10 lbs. on a 160 lb. frame is a lot, and it would absolutely have an effect on how he moves; it quite realistically would prove to be a problem for him. People are resistant because they feel it is probably unnecessary.
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:38 AM   #1066
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You are certain that an extra 10 lbs. will not hurt his play? How is it that you are certain? I'm not convinced. Jarome Iginla added weight in the 2005–06 season in hopes of increasing his effectiveness along the boards. He increased his weight by less than 10%, and it didn't work at all. While I expect Gaudreau to gradually gain a little weight as he matures into adulthood, I don't think that an arbitrary assignment of weight will help him. 10 lbs. on a 160 lb. frame is a lot, and it would absolutely have an effect on how he moves; it quite realistically would prove to be a problem for him. People are resistant because they feel it is probably unnecessary.
And yet people are quite happy that Bennett added 14 lbs. Odd.
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:49 AM   #1067
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And yet people are quite happy that Bennett added 14 lbs. Odd.
Sam Bennett is 6" taller than Gaudreau. It's not odd that a larger frame is able to support greater mass and be less impacted by a change in mass..... Unless physics is odd.
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:55 AM   #1068
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And yet people are quite happy that Bennett added 14 lbs. Odd.
However, I think those are two different situations. A player of Gaudreau's size (or lack there of) is such a unique situation in the NHL. His success and survival is completely based in being incredibly quick, shifty and avoiding heavy bodies. Players like Bennett, and Monahan are big enough players that they will be mixing it up - physicallity is a large part of Bennett's tenacity and game. Therefore, the added size and muscle (and I'm guessing accompanying loss of a little agility) makes sense for most young players.

Just offering a perspective, I'm not a physical trainer, nor am I positive what Johnny should be doing, but I do think he is in a much different physical situation than 99% of the league.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:10 AM   #1069
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And yet people are quite happy that Bennett added 14 lbs. Odd.
I believe Bennett has also grown an inch since being drafted. This is not in any way odd, this is natural growth. I have already advocated for natural growth for Gaudreau, but in no way do I believe that will come in the form of anything close to +10 lbs. over the course of several months.

Again, my problem is with the insistence that he should add an arbitrary measure of weight. I think he should and will get bigger as he ages and his body matures. But that is entirely different than having him sequestered to the gym for several months with an aggressive programme to bulk up.
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Old 02-23-2015, 08:02 AM   #1070
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He's going to get stronger and heavier just growing into a man while being a Pro Athelete.....his nutrition and training will be pro level for the first time ever.

If his game suffers because he becomes too strong he/they will dial it back. It is done all the time, I've heard Iginla and Gio mention it before. Feel like they added too much and lost a half step etc.
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Old 02-23-2015, 09:18 AM   #1071
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Eastern road trip is expected to be a media circus for Johnny. So many media requests to talk to Johnny came in the Flames had to lay down rules.4

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hock...to-be-a-circus
And thats how a good team does it. Supportive, but they'll get their digs in.
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:12 PM   #1072
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If his game suffers because he becomes too strong he/they will dial it back. It is done all the time, I've heard Iginla and Gio mention it before. Feel like they added too much and lost a half step etc.
This.

Just because you put on 10 lbs of muscle doesn't make it permanent. If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out. But, you'll never know unless you try.
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:21 PM   #1073
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I agree it wouldn't be probable for a soph and two rookies to play on a regular line, but you might see Johnny/Bennett/Poirier on a powerplay next year.
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Old 02-23-2015, 01:11 PM   #1074
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This.

Just because you put on 10 lbs of muscle doesn't make it permanent. If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out. But, you'll never know unless you try.
All of your constant beating of this drum seems to suggest you think they're not currently trying to do this. Why are you giving the impression you think they're not trying to add some weight to him?

With his frame at 21 years old, adding ten pounds (and doing so in a natural way, without illegal means) isn't going to happen overnight. Especially when he's playing several NHL games a week. It's not uncommon for players to lose several pounds in the course of a single game and they have to eat tremendous amounts of calories just to keep pace.

I think it's a much more difficult undertaking than you seem to be suggesting, and one I am sure is being worked towards by a team of professionals.
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:33 PM   #1075
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All of your constant beating of this drum seems to suggest you think they're not currently trying to do this. Why are you giving the impression you think they're not trying to add some weight to him?

With his frame at 21 years old, adding ten pounds (and doing so in a natural way, without illegal means) isn't going to happen overnight. Especially when he's playing several NHL games a week. It's not uncommon for players to lose several pounds in the course of a single game and they have to eat tremendous amounts of calories just to keep pace.

I think it's a much more difficult undertaking than you seem to be suggesting, and one I am sure is being worked towards by a team of professionals.
Actually my original post on this subject was that I hope he can put on 10 lbs over the summer....

... and then all hell broke loose.
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:46 PM   #1076
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Gaudreau is on pace for 60+ points, the most a Flames rookie has had in over 20 years. I think he's doing just fine, thank you very much.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:42 PM   #1077
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Gaudreau is on pace for 60+ points, the most a Flames rookie has had in over 20 years. I think he's doing just fine, thank you very much.
Of course he is. I agree with you completely except I'd say he's doing more than just fine... he's doing great!

Its not his scoring ability that worries me. Its his durability over the course of an 82 game season, year after year playing against players who outweigh him by a considerable amount.

The other game when he got hit from behind I just cringed and crossed my fingers hoping he was ok. Thankfully he was but the check on Gaudreau looked like fully grown man checking a 12 year old kid. Not good.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:47 PM   #1078
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Of course he is. I agree with you completely except I'd say he's doing more than just fine... he's doing great!

Its not his scoring ability that worries me. Its his durability over the course of an 82 game season, year after year playing against players who outweigh him by a considerable amount.

The other game when he got hit from behind I just cringed and crossed my fingers hoping he was ok. Thankfully he was but the check on Gaudreau looked like fully grown man checking a 12 year old kid. Not good.
Would ten extra pounds have made a difference?
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:50 PM   #1079
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St Louis' legs are disgusting.
The ironing is delicious.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:50 PM   #1080
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Sam Bennett is 6" taller than Gaudreau. It's not odd that a larger frame is able to support greater mass and be less impacted by a change in mass..... Unless physics is odd.
You mean 3" taller. Jg is 5'9" . I don't think that a few pounds more is going to hurt him.
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