[Trade] Glencross to Washington for a 2015 2nd and 2015 3rd round pick (WSH) (Archive)

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

So what you're saying is that the reputation of the GM makes you think you might be able to make a deal you wouldn't otherwise think you can make? Huh.

Yes. If the nino for clutterbuck deal was the only example of bad trades made in the past then it wouldn't be so bad but this is the guy who gave up Moulson and a first for Vanek, gave horrible contracts out and given away other good players. Now that the isles are actually doing really well, I think he might be persuaded to make a deal for a guy like Glencross because he just might "push them over the top" or something like that.

A GM in a tight spot fighting for his job will make questionable moves but so will a GM who thinks he's almost won the cup and only needs a piece or two.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Yes. If the nino for clutterbuck deal was the only example of bad trades made in the past then it wouldn't be so bad but this is the guy who gave up Moulson and a first for Vanek, gave horrible contracts out and given away other good players. Now that the isles are actually doing really well, I think he might be persuaded to make a deal for a guy like Glencross because he just might "push them over the top" or something like that.

A GM in a tight spot fighting for his job will make questionable moves but so will a GM who thinks he's almost won the cup and only needs a piece or two.

I was making a point about the conversation going on above.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I agree with sureloss. Jimmy's idea works if the GMs don't know each other and will not do repeat trades with each other (ie: Like us buying a house). But it doesn't work in the situation where they trade over and over and over with each other. Taking what you can by trade deadline isn't like being a few points higher in value in a portfolio of players.

It's a lot like tournament poker. You're sitting at a table with the same ten guys and every move you make gives the other players information. If you want to get paid on your good hands you sometimes have to eat a loss by playing bad poker or other hands.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Did a single poster on CP make this argument, ever, before Burke failed to secure anything for Cammalleri last year?

Beats me. Not sure why that would matter though.
You either believe that there's something to what Burke said or you think he was putting one over on the fan base.
But it seems perfectly logical to me.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Did a single poster on CP make this argument, ever, before Burke failed to secure anything for Cammalleri last year?

Did a single poster assume we wouldn't even be offered a 2nd round pick for Cammy last year?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Not true at all and this was already discussed as well:

The situations are completely different. If we get no reasonable offers on Glencross at this deadline in no way is that a futile situation. Cammalleri's play last season after the deadline was inconsequential.

This season, if Glencross remains on the roster, we have the added benifit of his experience adding to a playoff push. It's a player contending teams are looking to potentially give up assets to have for a few months that we could benifit from for no acquisition cost.

Very different situations. If there are no serious offers on Glencross, keeping him for a playoff push is definitely a benefit to us.

I understand the situations are different, thanks.

All I'm saying is that for a rebuilding team to lose two decent assets in back to back years for nothing would sting, badly. We'll see, I'm hoping for the best.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I would've thought he was a Pittsburgh type of guy. I'm sure Winnipeg would want him, but I'm not surprised they aren't on the list.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Did a single poster on CP make this argument, ever, before Burke failed to secure anything for Cammalleri last year?

1) the fact that it was never a conversation on CP prior to that, does not mean that it didn't exist as an issue prior to that.

2) it has been discussed on CP for a while, though under different names. There are many here that think Feaster routinely got less return than he should have in trades.

3) the following quote states pretty clearly that this is an issue for GMs. Your comment was pretty silly, IMO, after seeing what Treliving said about how GMs operate.

Quote:
Even though he wasn't here at the time, Treliving thought Burke did the right thing. He said that that teams do profiling of the other GMs in the league. He said his goes back six or seven years for each other manager in the league and it gives them an idea of who will fold at the end of a negotiation. He said it's very important not to get a reputation as someone who 'takes what they can get'.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Since the thread is already fully derailed... My biggest problem with your logic is that you are looking at it strictly as playoffs/extension vs. lost asset.

First of all you need to consider the value Cammalleri gave the Flames between the trade deadline and the off-season. He helped make games more exciting, and gain a few more wins. We saw first hand how vital is hope and excitement during a rebuild. It is what keeps the average fan paying attention during a 'planned' playoff-less season. That attention converts into hockey tickets, extra viewers and merchandise. It is not something I can gauge, but the GM and president have their own estimations.
...

Thanks for that. Will also add that the Flames were still in discussions with Cammalleri with respect to a new contract at that time, and iirc Burke specifically mentioned that the extra negotiating time before the free agency period started has value, and that once you traded a player away as a rental it is more difficult to get them to return.

Cammalleri also apparently had some very positive discussions with Gaudreau about training and about playing in the league as a smaller player, which may have paid some dividends.

[GioforPM]

GM reputation aside, I suppose if the offered return is tiny and the Flames opt not to do a trade, they might be able to use that in an extension negotiation with Glencross. Or Glencross could see being kept as a positive and light it up the rest of the year (or try to increase his UFA value that way).

[Red Menace]

geez....lets just admit Burke blew it on Cammalleri and move on....he made some other nice moves, and i don't want to pile on him...but he certainly bungled that whole situation. Of course Treliving is going to say he agrees with him.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

geez....lets just admit Burke blew it on Cammalleri and move on....he made some other nice moves, and i don't want to pile on him...but he certainly bungled that whole situation. Of course Treliving is going to say he agrees with him.

"Blew it" is a little too harsh in my opinion. Would something have been better than nothing? Sure. But players similar to Cammy fetched tiny returns.

Hemsky for a 3rd and 5th
Vanek for a prospect and conditional pick
Stempniak for a 3rd

Best-case Cammy would've got us a 3rd round pick, which would've been nice. But, since we didn't, I don't think Burke "Blew it".

"Blowing it" is trading Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

"Blowing it" is trading Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat.

Is this the dumbest trade of all time? I just can't believe a real life NHL GM made this deal.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by codynw

Is this the dumbest trade of all time? I just can't believe a real life NHL GM made this deal.

They haven't fully matured as players yet but Gomez for McDonagh was pretty bad. Gomez had a 7.3M cap hit.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by codynw

Is this the dumbest trade of all time? I just can't believe a real life NHL GM made this deal.

There was an ESPN Insider article that went behind the scenes of how much of an organizational fail that trade was.

To sum up the article, the Capitals were taken by surprise when Forsberg fell to them. Organizationally they had not much internal debate or discussion on Forsberg but they took him because they knew the consensus by everyone else was that he was the BPA, but there were immediately people in the organization who thought he was too slow and lazy for the NHL.

When the Capitals development camp happened, Forsberg's detractors in the organization appeared to be proven right. Forsberg had a pretty bad camp. You could argue that they pretty much had given up on Forsberg at that point.

Then combine this with a GM who's job was on the line and who was under pressure for a struggling Caps team to make noise in the playoffs. He decided to use an asset that he thought he made a mistake on.

So in summary:
1. They didn't prepare for the draft well enough.
2. They gave up on a prospect way too early.
3. Desperate GM.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by codynw

Is this the dumbest trade of all time? I just can't believe a real life NHL GM made this deal.

Alexei Zhitnik for Braydon Colborn was just as bad.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Is there any chance Pittsburgh bites on Glencross for Dumoulin or Harrington?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by codynw

Is this the dumbest trade of all time? I just can't believe a real life NHL GM made this deal.

I dont know, I remember reading about a guy who got traded for a steak dinner. Although that may have been full-value.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

To sum up the article, the Capitals were taken by surprise when Forsberg fell to them. Organizationally they had not much internal debate or discussion on Forsberg but they took him because they knew the consensus by everyone else was that he was the BPA, but there were immediately people in the organization who thought he was too slow and lazy for the NHL.

I can understand not always being able to have a great read on everyone in the draft, but you're picking 11th overall, and you don't know where you stand on every player in the top half of the first round? And then basically taking a flyer anyway based on hearsay?

Yikes, that sounds like one incompetent organization.

[Muta]

I believe Winnipeg traded Kris Draper to Detroit for 1$. Considering what he then went on to do in Detroit, that was a dumb move.