Sharks with a pair of deals

[TurdFerguson]

Again, I'm not bitching about the deals - just my opinion. Both were available to the league and I choose not to enquire.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by TurdFerguson

Adam Larrson was also 4th overall and how's he looking? Of all people, you should know draft positions means nothing. Silly :/

I hope Drury is just smarter then us all. I'll happily eat my words on Reinhart but I just don't see it.

Adam Larsson is looking pretty good lately.

This place is like a mirror image of HF boards lol

[devo22]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What was the offer?

Craig Smith + Marko Dano + a 2016 2nd

Not bitter at all about missing out on Simmonds, just to be clear.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

10 games played this year makes him a semi starter???

He was starting for them in the playoffs last year and he was to battle Anderson for the gig now that Anderson is injured he's starting. He's in the minors for the same reason as Ortio is, getting them more playing time.

In case you missed it, I posted this above.

Since you asked for a comparable I did some digging around. You can look at Varlamov, who was traded from the Wild to Canes in the summer of 2011.

To Canes: Varlamov
To Wild: Del Zotto, Fehr, 17th overall pick, Jared Knight

In the summer of 2011 Varlamov had previously played 59 games in 3 seasons so not a starter then, he was traded to Avs in the NHL. Del Zotto had established himself as one of the better offensive young dman (37 point rookie season and 11 point lockout shortened season). Fehr while battling injuries was still trending upwards. Knight was one of the better prospects in Bruins system and obviously the 17th.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by devo22

Craig Smith + Marko Dano + a 2016 2nd

Not bitter at all about missing out on Simmonds, just to be clear.

Ok well I think Goffies deal is miles better than that one

[devo22]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Ok well I think Goffies deal is miles better than that one

and that's fair. Like I had said, it was an opening offer.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

He was starting for them in the playoffs last year and he was to battle Anderson for the gig now that Anderson is injured he's starting. He's in the minors for the same reason as Ortio is, getting them more playing time.

In case you missed it, I posted this above.

Since you asked for a comparable I did some digging around. You can look at Varlamov, who was traded from the Wild to Canes in the summer of 2011.

To Canes: Varlamov
To Wild: Del Zotto, Fehr, 17th overall pick, Jared Knight

In the summer of 2011 Varlamov had previously played 59 games in 3 seasons so not a starter then, he was traded to Avs in the NHL. Del Zotto had established himself as one of the better offensive young dman (37 point rookie season and 11 point lockout shortened season). Fehr while battling injuries was still trending upwards. Knight was one of the better prospects in Bruins system and obviously the 17th.

And as a guy that made that deal I can tell you not much panned out. Plus Doug really wanted Varlamov. Is that the only example? I don't know that a singular example from 4 years ago established a pattern of value

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And as a guy that made that deal I can tell you not much panned out. Plus Doug really wanted Varlamov. Is that the only example? I don't know that a singular example from 4 years ago established a pattern of value

I'm not digging around more. The value on goalies is known to all experienced GMs. It doesn't matter if those guys panned out or not they all held value at the time of the trade. Look at your own comments.

In the meantime we add a number of things we like
Fehr will slide in nicely on our fourth line.
Delzotto had a step back last year but still has buckets of upside which is what we look for.
The 1st gives us four in the 1st round which is really nice
And we think Jared Knight could be one of the big long-term pieces of this deal. We see him as a 2nd liner in the NHL long-term.

I highly doubt you'd trade Jake Allen for a similar return. Anyways I'm not going to debate this anymore. The deal is done and it's not a good one for the Sharks at all (also pointed out by many other GMs).

Like you say, just be happy and say you got a solid deal.

[JiriHrdina]

I would happily trade Jake Allen for a prospect like Griffin Reinhart.
Moreover, if someone wants to make a better offer for Gibson then have at it - and I'll even happily share the proceeds of that deal with Drury.
People love to complain about deals but rarely were actually prepared to pull the trigger on a similar deal.
I'm happy with the deal but I don't think Drury got shafted here.

My final point on it is that I'm a GM that has a lot of goalie prospects over the years - and some of the best ones. And I've had a hard time moving them. So I don't think the market for goalie prospects, even blue chip ones, is a high as being suggested here.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I would happily trade Jake Allen for a prospect like Griffin Reinhart.
Moreover, if someone wants to make a better offer for Gibson then have at it - and I'll even happily share the proceeds of that deal with Drury.
People love to complain about deals but rarely were actually prepared to pull the trigger on a similar deal.
I'm happy with the deal but I don't think Drury got shafted here.

My final point on it is that I'm a GM that has a lot of goalie prospects over the years - and some of the best ones. And I've had a hard time moving them. So I don't think the market for goalie prospects, even blue chip ones, is a high as being suggested here.

You're not gonna accuse me of being gun shy.

This one will be a good one to look back in couple years.

I can't remember what other prospects like Gibson were traded. Do you have any? Plus whatever happened to your Thursday Throwbacks?

[Tilley]

I'll avoid weighing in on the fairness of the two deals, but instead ask if Drury sought advice or guidance from other GMs before finalizing either deal. It has been mentioned that it takes time to fully understand the CPHL trade market, but as a new GM I am constantly messaging numerous GMs for their take on deals. It is great that Drury has been active early in her reign, but not if she is putting an already struggling franchise further behind with questionable deals.

[JiriHrdina]

^(to DC) Yeah not talking about you with that comment for sure.
I traded Jack Campbell soon after he was traded to Doug as well - I think that deal was a good one for me. But guys like Allen/Schneider (when I had him) were tough to find a market for. I also dumped Rinne for next to nothing (which was just a bad call on my part).
Goalies are tricky for sure. Markstrom was considered the best goalie prospect for years, and still hasn't panned out. They have risk simply because there are only 30 starting jobs so there is a higher probability of bust. But Gibson is further along and carries less risk for sure.

[TurdFerguson]

I had bernier lehner and markstrom when they were all highly sought (those were the days). Market was high on them...I sold markstrom plus for ten mackinnon pick. I paid 2 firsts for bernier. Lehner I don't recall.

Timing is the key, as with all prospects

[Goffie]

I traded Quick and Miller as prospects...I will not mention the return...man it was ugly...That said I paid a similar Price for Price so I guess that is the way it goes.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

I'm not digging around more. The value on goalies is known to all experienced GMs. It doesn't matter if those guys panned out or not they all held value at the time of the trade. Look at your own comments.

Truth be told, I overpaid huge for Varlmanov. There was also not negotiations in the trade and honestly believe when I say this his value was much lower
. I wanted him bad Iand I thre every asset I though Jiri would be interested in and accept before second thinking the deal. I was deperate for a goalie and was going to rebuild around Varlmanov was low his starting job and people on this forum were laughing at Colarodo trading a 1st for him

I took a huge gamble, since the other end (forgetting what the pick ended up being) it turned out a win for me. But I got crap luck with Varlmanov in the sense the other future goalies never panned out.

The trade only worked in hindsight, at the time I was told Jiri picked my pockets by many

[Hanna Sniper]

I traded away Henrik Lundqvist fro Dennis Seidenberg with a rokkie GM. It was viewed I was raking the new GM over the coals and later had to rewrk the deal and add more to Lundqvist

[JiriHrdina]

As I mentioned, I've given away more than my share of future #1 goalies in my time. Varlamov is one.

Pekka Rinne is another. Here's that deal:
Team: Minnesota Wild
- Nabokov, Evgeni (G) NHL
- Rinne, Pekka (G) AHL
- 2008 2nd Round Draft Choice (bos)

Team: Nashville Predators
- Vokoun, Tomas (G) NHL
- Garnett, Michael (G) AHL

I don't even know what I was trying to do with this one.

I also had Ben Bishop at one point and gave him away for a piss poor return:

Team: Minnesota Wild
- Bishop, Ben (G) AHL

Team: Columbus Blue Jackets
- 2010 2nd Round Draft Choice (la)

I also signed Anti Niemi and then lost him on waivers.

And I had Jonathan Bernier when he was coming off a real strong WJCs. This deal actually isn't a bad comparable to the deal in question here as JVR at the time had some questions surrounding him, as Reinhart does now:

Team: Anaheim Mighty Ducks
- Van Reimsdyk, James (LW) ECHL

Team: Minnesota Wild
- Bernier, Jonathan (G) ECHL
- Long, Colin (C) AHL


The Wild have an awful history with dealing away quality tenders.

[JiriHrdina]

Oh someone ask about CPHL TBT - I plan on doing them again. Work has just been too nutty of late.
A good one might be someone like Rinne or Bishop - goalies take forever to mature in the CPHL so often they get passed around a ton.

[Slava]

I can't believe I had Rinne at one point! I remember dealing you Vokoun for Nabokov and at that time you got Vokoun who was a great starter. I'm sure that was the deal, but I'm fairly sure that whatever I did with Rinne wasn't worth it as I didn't think he would be as good as he is today. To me that's part of the fun of the league though; trying to pick up players and prospects today and find that diamond in the rough where we're total amateurs and the professionals have a hard enough time!

[I wanna be like Miikka]

Goalies are very tough to predict. Right now I like the deal more for the Wild but for all we know Anderson comes back with a vengeance when healthy and Gibson plays the Bernier role for a few years then goes to Toronto and is mediocre and finally has a #1 rating 4 years down the road.

However, from what I have seen Gibson looks pretty solid and I do like him more then Reinhart. If it was me I would have asked for a mid 1st with Griffin but that is only because once a goalie makes it they are worth a ton. If I believe in the goalie then it would take a big time return to move him, especially if the organization really doesn't have a good #1 already.

I think I had Bishop once or twice and sold him for super cheap when he stalled out for a year or 2.