[Trade] Glencross to Washington for a 2015 2nd and 2015 3rd round pick (WSH) (Archive)

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Glencross has a full NMC, why would he agree to leave this team on the cusp of all their hard work paying off and securing a playoffs spot after years of not making it

I would think the rationale would be similar to what Iggy had to factor with the only difference being that the Flames might make the playoffs:
- He knows he's not coming back
- The odds of the Flames winning the cup are very slim. Miracles do happen but it's unlikely.
- He's getting older with less chances to win the cup and sticking around is almost equivalent to losing one of his increasingly limited chances for the cup.
- Any team trading for him would likely be stocking up for a long run and a shot at the cup.
- A long playoff run could help drive up his UFA value

He has a NMC so he can choose who he thinks has the best shot at the cup and try to push a trade there. The only risk is having the same luck as Iginla and essentially putting your family into upheaval for nothing.

[GioforPM]

No, a second might not pan out. Nor might a first. And yes, playoff experience is valuable, as is the run up to the playoffs, making it nor no. Even the present games are meaningful, unlike what the Oilers are playing.

That said, I think both sides are overstating a case here. Glencross isn't dead weight, nor is he the key piece in making the playoffs. I happen to think his particular skill set, the fact he is very affordable for a cap team, making a cup (not playoff) run, and the fact he is almost certainly not a Flame at the beginning of next season, makes him a valuable trading piece now (more so than just prior to free agency, when the Flems might get a 5th rounder).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

No core pieces though was my point

Iginla was only 27 at the time and it seemed to have a huge impact on his expectations and tolerance for failure after that. The 03/04 run probably helped make him the player he has become.

I recall before then, Iginla was often knocked for his passiveness after a loss. He would be smiling in post game interviews like nothing happened. It was the kicking of those expectations to the curb that really changed the team for the next several season.

[Poe969]

What would you guys think of making a trade with Tampa for Gudas? It would mean pretty much giving Glencross and not getting anything back for the rest of the year because Gudas is out for the rest of the season with knee surgery but Gudas looks like a pretty good young defender. I don't know if they'd give him up but he's the kind of guy we should be targeting.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That is a bit simplistic.

Overall though, lets not pretend that experience isn't valuable.

In the case of the Flames, what benefit did the '04 run give the players going forward? They were one and done in the playoffs for the next four seasons.

This mystical playoff experience value looks like just the latest meme around here to justify the status quo (remember when it was vital we keep Iginla as a mentor?).

This has been a fun season. But the prize is building a perennial contender in 2-5 seasons, not making the playoffs this year. Every player on this roster knew they were signing on to a young, rebuilding team this season. Heck, the only reason a lot of guys are even getting the NHL ice time they're enjoying right now is because the team is rebuilding. If they make the playoffs, great. If they don't, no loss in the overall scheme of things. I'm not interested in seeing the Flames give up any assets (and that includes the opportunity cost of holding onto UFAs) in order to improve the team this season.

If players don't like that, tough. Half of them would be buried on the depth charts or in the minors on a team that was in win now mode.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Poe969

What would you guys think of making a trade with Tampa for Gudas? It would mean pretty much giving Glencross and not getting anything back for the rest of the year because Gudas is out for the rest of the season with knee surgery but Gudas looks like a pretty good young defender. I don't know if they'd give him up but he's the kind of guy we should be targeting.

I don't see the Lightning giving up on Gudas. He's a young, cheap, top-4 guy. They're going to run into cap trouble soon, and they'll need to hang on to guys like Gudas instead of filling those roster spots with free agents.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Poe969

What would you guys think of making a trade with Tampa for Gudas? It would mean pretty much giving Glencross and not getting anything back for the rest of the year because Gudas is out for the rest of the season with knee surgery but Gudas looks like a pretty good young defender. I don't know if they'd give him up but he's the kind of guy we should be targeting.

If Hedmen is their "Gio" isn't Gudas their "Brodie"?

I doubt he would be available. Unless Gudas isn't a great young D man that I am thinking of, I could be confused.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Weitz

If Hedmen is their "Gio" isn't Gudas their "Brodie"?

I doubt he would be available. Unless Gudas isn't a great young D man that I am thinking of, I could be confused.

I don't know that Gudas is their Brodie - more of a rough n' tumble guy as opposed to a puck moving dman.

But certainly a guy that they view as a big piece of their future.

[skudr248]

Glencross for Eriksson + 3rd, or just both straight up trade.. could easily see that happening

[Tinordi]

Gudas is like Regehr of ten years ago.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by skudr248

Glencross for Eriksson + 3rd, or just both straight up trade.. could easily see that happening

That assumes Glencross would waive for Boston, which given their precarious situation of falling out of the playoffs, he might not.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Gudas is like Regehr of ten years ago.

Get him for Byron and Engelland?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In the case of the Flames, what benefit did the '04 run give the players going forward? They were one and done in the playoffs for the next four seasons.

This mystical playoff experience value looks like just the latest meme around here to justify the status quo (remember when it was vital we keep Iginla as a mentor?).

Playoff experience is always valuable, but the lesson from 2004 should not be that "anything can happen", it should be that cinderella teams don't win Stanley Cups, and that you need to remain patient. 2004 was an amazing experience, but in the grand-scheme of things it totally skewed the expectations of a team that was nowhere as good as that run made it seem. We started acting like were one of the big boys…when in reality it was just another mediocre lineup with 2 all-stars.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I think that's his point. There was no youth to develop though so it's a bad comparison.

The playoffs would be a valuable learning experience for Monahan, Gaudreau, Jooris, Brodie, etc plus any call ups. There were no comparables in 04 really. Phaneuf I guess?

Jooris and Brodie are both 24, Gaudreau is 21

Kobasew (22) 601 games played
Nystrom (21) 539 games played
Saprykin (23) 325 games played
Phaneuf (19) 728 games played
Prust (20) 425 games played
Leopold (24) 675 games played
Lombardi (22) 536 games played
Regehr (24) 1064 games played
Ference (25) 886 games played
Montador (25) 571 games played
Commodore (25) 484 games played

Players that were Flames property in '04.

Bolded is the Flames that actually played in '04 during the cup run, who I would describe as the Flames youth at the time (age in '04 in brackets). Keep in mind that before the rule changes, players peaked at a later age than today.

Every player on this list turned into above average NHLers for games played (average is roughly 100 games played).

The '04 youth gets severely underrated.





.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I don't know that Gudas is their Brodie - more of a rough n' tumble guy as opposed to a puck moving dman.

But certainly a guy that they view as a big piece of their future.

Yeah, they aren't really close at all value-wise. I like Gudas a lot. He would be an upgrade over Smid, and could potentially be a 2nd pairing guy that could add some physical play there, but he is not nearly as well rounded as Brodie. Tampa does a really good job of managing his ice-time.

I don't think they would let him go easily, but I don't think he is untouchable. He's more like a younger Robidas.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Playoff experience is always valuable, but the lesson from 2004 should not be that "anything can happen", it should be that cinderella teams don't win Stanley Cups, and that you need to remain patient. 2004 was an amazing experience, but in the grand-scheme of things it totally skewed the expectations of a team that was nowhere as good as that run made it seem. We started acting like were one of the big boys…when in reality it was just another mediocre lineup with 2 all-stars.

They went from the team that never made the playoffs to a team that always made the playoffs. The 2004 team ended up with 94 pts.... Based on the regular season there was absolutely no reason to expect a 5 season making the playoff run.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Just look at the huge impact making the playoffs in 2012-13 had on the Senators.

Ottawa is Ottawa.

Why does nobody mention the Kings or the Habs?

Has anybody claimed that making the playoffs with a young Kopitar and a very young Doughty derailed the long term plans of the Kings?

Are the Habs sitting around right now thinking: if only we sucked for a little longer and got a couple more draft picks?

Every situation is different and every set of players is unique. Playoff experience is good. Meaningful games are good. They will help the players develop.

Doesn't mean you forego your long term plans, but it also shouldn't mean that you simply ignore where you are, simply because you're early in a rebuild.

[Red Menace]

A reasonable (despite the author) article regarding Glencross:

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/2/18/fri...contract-talks

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

A reasonable (despite the author) article regarding Glencross:

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/2/18/fri...contract-talks

Yup, that sums up my thoughts on the subject nicely.

[The Original FFIV]

Tampa won't surrender their first or top prospect for a rental according to Lebrun. So maybe a second or b prospect for GlenX

The Tampa Bay Lightning are contending for first place in the Eastern Conference, but general manager Steve Yzerman remains just as focused on the big-picture plan as he is on seeing his team succeed this season. It's a plan that he's flawlessly pulled off so far in building one of the NHL's most exciting and talented squads. The future is just as important as the present, however, which is why Yzerman isn't going to trade away his top prospect or a first-round pick before the March 2 trade deadline just to get another key piece. In fact, trading away his second-round pick, while very much possible, is going to have to be justified.

Is Tampa looking add a piece? Yes. But it's going to have to be at a reasonable and justified price.

http://m.espn.go.com/nhl/story?story...tning%2F%22%7D