Nuisance Neighborhood Cat

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

There are loads of cats in our neighbourhood. They are mainly all outdoor cats. It really isn't a problem.

Yeah, no problem at all:

Outdoor cats are the leading cause of death among both birds and mammals in the United States, according to a new study, killing 1.4 billion to 3.7 billion birds each year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...e79_story.html

Truly sickening how ignorant people can be.

[metallicat]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

Yeah, no problem at all:

Outdoor cats are the leading cause of death among both birds and mammals in the United States, according to a new study, killing 1.4 billion to 3.7 billion birds each year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...e79_story.html

Truly sickening how ignorant people can be.

'Truly sickening', emotional much?

Yeah, nature and natural instincts are truly sickening. It is up to man to sort out all mother natures cruel unfairness.

Where do we stop interfering with natural instincts?

It isn't cruel at all, it is simply the natural order of things and is way down the list of issues that are truly sickening.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

'Truly sickening', emotional much?

Yeah, nature and natural instincts are truly sickening. It is up to man to sort out all mother natures cruel unfairness.

Where do we stop interfering with natural instincts?

It isn't cruel at all, it is simply the natural order of things and is way down the list of issues that are truly sickening.

Yeah. Domestic house cats are all about the "natural order" of things. That's funny.

[Barnet Flame]

Cats have been domesticated for millenia for a whole host of reasons. Some practical, others emotional and cultural.

For all that time they have maintained their natural instincts.

Nothing has changed other than the Disneyfication of human emotions in regards to animals in respect of what has been a natural occurrence for pretty much the entire history of human civilisation.

Thanks for underlining the key point of your post. I might have missed that.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Cats have been domesticated for millenia for a whole host of reasons. Some practical, others emotional and cultural.

For all that time they have maintained their natural instincts.

Nothing has changed other than the Disneyfication of human emotions in regards to animals in respect of what has been a natural occurrence for pretty much the entire history of human civilisation.

Thanks for underlining the key point of your post. I might have missed that.

You really don't get this. Domestication aside, people have been breeding cats for thousands of years. Their controlled (and by proxy...uncontrolled) breeding makes them stick out like a sore thumb from your "natural order of things". If people controlled the existance of the average song bird you'd have a point. But we don't and thus you don't. Do you also think cows are a part of the natural order of things?

[OutOfTheCube]

My cat loved going outside. They just need to learn their lesson some times. One time he came back soaking wet (most likely a neighbour with a hose) and another time came back with a limp, slobber all over him, and blood on his mouth (some kind of fight). He still loved going out, but he wouldn't venture far out of the yard after that. In his later years he would just go outside and sit under a bush.

He also didn't have claws, so he was only able to kill a couple birds/mice in his life. Proud moments for him, though.

[Barnet Flame]

You're moving goalposts. The breeding of cats is an entirely different issue. In any event, most cats aren't bred.

I just do not have an issue with cats being outside. This is a view pretty much in line with the vast majority of countries and jurisdictions that don't seek to control things to such a degree as in North America.

Sure they kill birds, rodents, etc. But they have done for years.

It is our instinct to control everything in our environment that is unnatural.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

You're moving goalposts. The breeding of cats is an entirely different issue. In any event, most cats aren't bred.

I just do not have an issue with cats being outside. This is a view pretty much in line with the vast majority of countries and jurisdictions that don't seek to control things to such a degree as in North America.

Sure they kill birds, rodents, etc. But they have done for years.

It is our instinct to control everything in our environment that is unnatural.

I'm sorry to take this off course, but you have no idea what you're talking about. You're trying to say that a man made species killing a wild species is the natural order of things. That makes no sense.

Look at the absract from a Smithsonian sponsored research paper...

Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals.

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal...comms2380.html

The keywords here are "wildlife" mortality" and "anthropogenic". In simpler terms, "Man made" things are killing "Wild" things. And by definition, your own definition, that is the opposite of "The natural order of things". For something to exist in natural order, it must be free of manmade things.

Your theory is literally the exact opposite of what you intend it to mean.

If we introduce Asian carp into the great lakes and they kill everything, will that simply be a natural order of things?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

I just do not have an issue with cats being outside. This is a view pretty much in line with the vast majority of countries and jurisdictions that don't seek to control things to such a degree as in North America.

In other countries, where cats roam free, they do so not because society is accepting of the natural act but rather because the cats are unwanted and uncared for. Cats in these societies are much more likely to be killed and abused because they are not valued and are considered to be vermin.

My grandparents live in Poland. Feral cats are common and cats are all over the place. In general, the cats don't really bother too many people and are left to do as they please. If a cat becomes a nuisance though it is taken care of swiftly and promptly though. There is no animal control to call and wait for and instead it is acceptable to kill the cats.

[Barnet Flame]

We aren't talking about a recent man made phenomena. Cats have been 'domesticated' for pretty much the entire history of civilisation. As a consequence the impact of that activity has continued unabated for all of that time.

Now were talking of introducing additional controls because as much as we've successfully domesticated cats, we have been less successful (ie not at all) in curtailing their predatory instinct.

That they kill creatures is something I've never disputed. I'd rather they didn't, but I don't get worked up about it. It has been a natural occurrence for millenia.

I might read your quoted research when I get home from work. It is impractical to do so while using tapatalk at work.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

In other countries, where cats roam free, they do so not because society is accepting of the natural act but rather because the cats are unwanted and uncared for. Cats in these societies are much more likely to be killed and abused because they are not valued and are considered to be vermin.

That is true. But to be more specific, I was referring to cats that are regarded as pets.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

We aren't talking about a recent man made phenomena. Cats have been 'domesticated' for pretty much the entire history of civilisation. As a consequence the impact of that activity has continued unabated for all of that time.

Now were talking of introducing additional controls because as much as we've successfully domesticated cats, we have been less successful (ie not at all) in curtailing their predatory instinct.

That they kill creatures is something I've never disputed. I'd rather they didn't, but I don't get worked up about it. It has been a natural occurrence for millenia.

Ah. So you have no concept of "the entire history of civilisation (sic)". Domesticated cats have been around for about 8000-12000 years. The oldest birds species are six million years old. Sparrows have been recognizable for 50k years and have existed in fossil records for hundreds of thousands of years before that. Some people theorize birds are miniature dinosaurs.

So now you have a statistically insignificant amount of time in existance for domesticated cats compared to a statistically abnormal amount of bird and mammal deaths. That should clarify things.

You're probably thinking, cats have been around for millions of years too...saber tooth tigers and such. But you must understand the effect domestication has on a species. Billions of cats would not have existed if people hadn't created them, bred them and included them in domestic life. They may have the "predator instinct" as dogs do. But they are not a part of the natural order of things if simply by numbers alone.

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

He also didn't have claws, so he was only able to kill a couple birds/mice in his life. Proud moments for him, though.

That's good but I would think any cat without claws would be at risk more so than cats with claws.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

That's good but I would think any cat without claws would be at risk more so than cats with claws.

Oh yeah they told us not to let him outside. But there's only so many hours of loud meowing at the door that a person can take. He was fine. He would even make attempts in a foot of snow, he loved being out there so much.

[Barnet Flame]

If we're gonna do that, the existence of life of anything more than single cell organisms is statistically insignificant. So the whole argument over whether or not Mr Fluffykins can go outside or not is pointless.

[Sr. Mints]

Every time I see your username, Nyah, I think of Skeletor.



"I'll get you cat, you four-legged mangy boob. Nyah!"

Anyway . . . Glad you caught the little guy. As much as it sucks when an animal becomes a nuisance, it's not the animal's fault--it's their humans'.

I wonder if the Humane Society has human traps?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Robo

when i was young we had a cat get it's eye shot out by some idiot with a pellet gun pretty traumitizing for a young kid to see his cats eye popping out of its head. Also the 1000$ bill to get the eye taken out can hamper a family financially. I wouldn't recommend a pellet gun

Not to mention if you were caught doing it you most likely get charged for animal cruelty.

[The Ditch]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

If we're gonna do that, the existence of life of anything more than single cell organisms is statistically insignificant. So the whole argument over whether or not Mr Fluffykins can go outside or not is pointless.

lol everyone look at this guy, literally he's serious and it's funny.

[Vulcan]

Okay cats kill birds but around here they also can kill mice and rats. I don't have a cat but I don't mind seeing the neighbours cats come around.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

lol everyone look at this guy, literally he's serious and it's funny.

Thanks for the input.

Maybe I should have
quoted the post it was in reply to.