Toronto is no good

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

So a few fans saying that means more than the thousands more saying that he's terrible. The media thinks he's horrific.

And Yes, he is worth Seth Jones. Kessel can help Nashville win a cup.

Hahahahahahhahaa.

Phil Kessel is about as valuable as Taylor Hall, except paid more.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hahahahahahhahaa.

Phil Kessel is about as valuable as Taylor Hall, except paid more.

I'd take Hall. Younger and in better shape

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

In what world is Phaneuf and Kessel overrated? All they get is crap for being terrible.

Seriously, who's complimenting them?

The morons who think Phil Kessel is worth Seth Jones, for one.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I'd take Hall. Younger and in better shape

Hall is more fragile though.

[cral12]

Not sure if this was linked up before - TSN Analytics stretching, trying to compare Leafs of last yr to Flames of this year...
Weakness of #FancyStats!

"@ChrisRalphTHW:
On paper, not on ice: "@TSNAnalytics: Remember this? http://buff.ly/1Aaqe4K
'14-15 #Flames look like '13-14 #Leafs" http://buff.ly/1AaqekY

[Enoch Root]

1) where are they getting the goals for and against and the differential?

2) none of the Flames numbers are as bad as the Leafs.

[transplant99]

So Toronto and Nashville make a deal and it's NOT Kessel for Jones?

Who'd a thunk it?



Other than everyone who has an inkling about such things I mean.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So Toronto and Nashville make a deal and it's NOT Kessel for Jones?

Who'd a thunk it?



Other than everyone who has an inkling about such things I mean.

No, no no. Don't you see?
Nashville acquired Franson as a replacement for Jones. Now they can trade Jones for Kessel!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by cral12

Not sure if this was linked up before - TSN Analytics stretching, trying to compare Leafs of last yr to Flames of this year...
Weakness of #FancyStats!

"@ChrisRalphTHW:
On paper, not on ice: "@TSNAnalytics: Remember this? http://buff.ly/1Aaqe4K
'14-15 #Flames look like '13-14 #Leafs" http://buff.ly/1AaqekY

They aren't wrong though. I posted the numbers in the advanced stats thread, but in the last four 82-game seasons, only seven teams made the playoffs with a Corsi below 48. Of those seven, six did it through remarkable goaltending, remarkable shooting percentage, or both. The Flames are doing through shooting, which is relatively unpredictable.

Edit - Oh, and Enoch - they get those goal stats from looking at 5 on 5 play only, as is most common when using these stats.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

They aren't wrong though. I posted the numbers in the advanced stats thread, but in the last four 82-game seasons, only seven teams made the playoffs with a Corsi below 48. Of those seven, six did it through remarkable goaltending, remarkable shooting percentage, or both. The Flames are doing through shooting, which is relatively unpredictable.

Or they are more inclined to pass, causing

a) a higher shooting percentage, and

b) fewer shot attempts and a lower Corsi

[Resolute 14]

Maybe, but lets just say that I doubt Hartley has found the magic bullet that defeats Corsi on a consistent basis and which everyone else has overlooked.

The only team that consistently wins with a low Corsi is Montreal. And Carey Price kind of has a lot to do with that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

They aren't wrong though. I posted the numbers in the advanced stats thread, but in the last four 82-game seasons, only seven teams made the playoffs with a Corsi below 48. Of those seven, six did it through remarkable goaltending, remarkable shooting percentage, or both. The Flames are doing through shooting, which is relatively unpredictable.

Edit - Oh, and Enoch - they get those goal stats from looking at 5 on 5 play only, as is most common when using these stats.

And they are wrong. Flames have outscored the opposition 109-103 5 on 5

Also, there is more to a game than just 5 on 5. I get the isolation, but ignoring everything else is idiocy.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Maybe, but lets just say that I doubt Hartley has found the magic bullet that defeats Corsi on a consistent basis and which everyone else has overlooked.

The only team that consistently wins with a low Corsi is Montreal. And Carey Price kind of has a lot to do with that.

The evidence suggests otherwise.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Edit - Oh, and Enoch - they get those goal stats from looking at 5 on 5 play only, as is most common when using these stats.

The Flames have 109 goals for and 103 goals against 5-on-5. If you take away last night's 3 for and 1 against, so you get the number through 55 games, it's still 106 to 102 for a +4 difference, not a -3.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Maybe, but lets just say that I doubt Hartley has found the magic bullet that defeats Corsi on a consistent basis and which everyone else has overlooked.

The only team that consistently wins with a low Corsi is Montreal. And Carey Price kind of has a lot to do with that.

Also, their 4 on 4 play is another example of their style.

Relying on the rush, as opposed to cycling, and always making the extra pass instead of shooting, are strategies that excel in the more open, 4 on 4 play.

Flames have outscored 11 to 4, 4 on 4.

Could be luck, but I don't think so

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Flames have 109 goals for and 103 goals against 5-on-5. If you take away last night's 3 for and 1 against, so you get the number through 55 games, it's still 106 to 102 for a +4 difference, not a -3.

stats.hockeyanalysis.com has us at 101-103 right now, and I am betting that is where TSN got the numbers from. Unsure why the discrepancy. They might be removing 6 on 5, dunno.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The evidence suggests otherwise.

Well then. List me the teams that consistently find success with a low Corsi.

I'll spot you another one - Pittsburgh before, during and after their Cup year. The only one of the last seven SC winners to do so while drowning in Corsi.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Flames have 109 goals for and 103 goals against 5-on-5. If you take away last night's 3 for and 1 against, so you get the number through 55 games, it's still 106 to 102 for a +4 difference, not a -3.

I'm pretty sure the discrepancy between your arguments is even strength vs 5v5. Even strength includes 4v4 where the flames are net positive

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I'm pretty sure the discrepancy between your arguments is even strength vs 5v5. Even strength includes 4v4 where the flames are net positive

nope.

Flames are 109 - 103 at 5 on 5

and 11 - 4 at 4 on 4

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Well then. List me the teams that consistently find success with a low Corsi.

I'll spot you another one - Pittsburgh before, during and after their Cup year. The only one of the last seven SC winners to do so while drowning in Corsi.

I was referring to the Flames