Top 20 Flames prospects according to HF (Feb 11, 2015)

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Fair enough if that's your opinion. Still can't see why you have players like Kulak/Kanzig/Ramage/Sieloff ahead of him.

All those defensemen have more value as prospects and none of them are trending down other than Sieloff, who obviously has had health and injury issues and still brims with upside.

I know Klimchuk could end up a total sniper but we won't know that til he plays some pro games and actually does something there. As-is, it's about what you value more - a Cammaleri or a Regehr.

Also Cul[kin]has definitely moved ahead of Kulak this year.

Maybe, since he played in the better league this year. I don't think that's really a knock on Kulak though, it's a function of circumstance.

[Vulcan]

I'd like to divide them into groups where so far they haven't differentiated themselves.

1. Bennett - has more upside than Gaudreau
2. Gaudreau

3. Ortio - future #1

This group could be put in any order
4. Wotherspoon - top defence prospect
5. Granlund
6. Jooris
7. Shore - they say he's good
8. Poirier - great first pro year after missing camp

these three could be gems
9. Gillies
10. Klimchuk
11. McDonald

12. Arnold - good first pro year
13. Ferland - game has dropped off since concussion
14.Culkin - doing well

15. Sieloff - bad luck
16. Kanzig - big but competent
17. Agostino
18. Reinhart - needs a rebound
19. Hanowski - has had his moments
20. Jankowski - progressing some
21. Kulak - good upside
22. Big Rig Smith
23. Big Bad Wolf
24. Hickey - should be higher
25. Carroll - could surprise as a late bloomer
26. Rafikov - I forgot about this guy, also should be higher

[devo22]

I don't think the list is horrible, but the one ranking that really sticks out like a sore thumb is the one of Mark Jankowski. No significant progress my arse ... I think he's progressing nicely. You simply can't judge this player by just looking at the stat line. And even if do only look at the stat line. Here's a kid that has bulked up and has added ~30 pounds of weight since being drafted. Here's a kid that started his college career as a winger (year one), then switched to center (year two) and slowly rose to the top of the depth chart (year three). Here's a kid that plays a smart two-way game for a defense-first team. Here's a kid that wins nearly 58 percent of his faceoffs this season (up from around 54 percent last year). Here's a kid that has gone from 0.54 PPG (year one) to 0.64 PPG (year two) to 0.83 PPG (year three). And let's not forget that he's still only 20 years old!

Having him at 20 is a joke. He's still a fine prospect, he should be top 10 easily.

[Caged Great]

Is it possible to have "This Post is Terrible" to comment on that article saying that "This Article is Terrible". I don't think that person even watched any of the players actually play this season.

My List as of today

1. Sam Bennett, C
2. Johnny Gaudreau, LW
3. Emile Poirier, RW
4. Jon Gillies, G
5. Joni Ortio, G
6. Markus Granlund, C
7. Josh Jooris, C
8. Tyler Wotherspoon, D
9. Mark Jankowski, C
10. Drew Shore, C
11. Morgan Klimchuk, LW
12. Bill Arnold, C
13. Brandon Hickey, D
14. Ryan Culkin, D
15. Mason McDonald, G
16. Michael Ferland, LW
17. Hunter Smith, RW
18. Max Reinhart, C
19. Kenny Agostino, LW
20. Brett Kulak, D

[Enoch Root]

There was some really good debate in the summer over which goalie was ahead - Gilles or Ortio.

As one of the more vocal supporters of Gillies at that time, I have to say that I don't know how anyone could put Gillies ahead of Ortio today. Gillies has had a really good year - really good. But Ortio was kicking butt in the NHL. Period. Nuff said. No more contest.

Ortio has raised the bar. And until Gillies takes to the next level, Ortio has to be ahead of him, IMO.

[SebC]

Gaudreau is not an 8.0B. 8.0 indicates a first line player, and he's already that (42nd in the NHL in points). He's either a sure thing 8.0 (i.e, 8.0A) or he's got a higher ceiling (e.g. 9.0B).

[saillias]

Originally Posted by SebC

Gaudreau is not an 8.0B. 8.0 indicates a first line player, and he's already that (42nd in the NHL in points). He's either a sure thing 8.0 (i.e, 8.0A) or he's got a higher ceiling (e.g. 9.0B).

From http://www.hockeysfuture.com/playerprojections/

To be an 8, his comparables are
Forward: Patrick Marleau, Jason Spezza, Mike Richards

I think the 8B is fine if an 8 player is Spezza.

[Obsidian]

Don't mistake this.. Poirier is going to be a player. Just how good is yet to be determined.

Granlund already is NHL caliber, but he's not flashy, so doesn't get the recognition that maybe he deserves. I worry he'll be overlooked for Poirier and Bennett next camp. He may be the next Reinhart in a player that has NHL upside but gets buried due to our really deep prospect pool and a lack of roster spots.

Wotherspoon should already be on our bottom pairing. I don't even understand the hold up. It's harder to put him in now with circumstances and it being late in the season, but after last season I just assumed he'd play his way onto the bottom pairing after being an early call up, but it just never happened.

Seeing what Ortio's doing in the AHL and what he's shown at the NHL, I think he's our starter by the end of next season. He's technically sound and more acrobatic than our other guys, thus able to make the more unlikely saves. The only thing with Ortio is his random off nights where he look very leaky.

Gaudreau is no longer a prospect, he's a top 6 NHLer who's bordering a top line NHLer.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

...1. Bennett - has more upside than Gaudreau
2. Gaudreau...

Totally agree. As good a player as Gaudreau is, Bennett will in all likelihood be in the conversation as the best player the Flames have EVER drafted. I am so excited to see this kid play.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Is it possible to have "This Post is Terrible" to comment on that article saying that "This Article is Terrible". I don't think that person even watched any of the players actually play this season.

My List as of today

1. Sam Bennett, C
2. Johnny Gaudreau, LW
3. Emile Poirier, RW
4. Jon Gillies, G
5. Joni Ortio, G
6. Markus Granlund, C
7. Josh Jooris, C
8. Tyler Wotherspoon, D
9. Mark Jankowski, C
10. Drew Shore, C
11. Morgan Klimchuk, LW
12. Bill Arnold, C
13. Brandon Hickey, D
14. Ryan Culkin, D
15. Mason McDonald, G
16. Michael Ferland, LW
17. Hunter Smith, RW
18. Max Reinhart, C
19. Kenny Agostino, LW
20. Brett Kulak, D

Difficult to find fault with this list, Caged Great. I think this is pretty spot on. In my opinion Gaudreau has graduated. Possibly Jooris too.

On top of these prospects there is Baertschi, who I think should still be regarded as a prospect despite HF's criteria. There's also Hanowski, Gilmour, Carroll and Rafikov who have had good seasons. Even Kanzig has progressed.

Things are looking great. We just need to add a blue chip D prospect and maybe a couple more legit 1st line wingers and we're gold. Between the draft and NCAA free agent signings we could get those spots covered.

[Soliak]

I think JG and Jooris have definitely graduated from prospect status. With that in mind, it'd have my top 10 like this:

1. Sam Bennett
2. Emile Poirier
3. Joni Ortio
4. Markus Granlund
5. Tyler Wotherspoon
6. Mark Jankowski
7. Morgan Klimchuk
8. Drew Shore
9. Hunter Smith
10. Michael Ferland
11. Brandon Hickey/Gillies

[badger89]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Totally agree. As good a player as Gaudreau is, Bennett will in all likelihood be in the conversation as the best player the Flames have EVER drafted. I am so excited to see this kid play.

Better than Nieuwendyk, Fleury, MacInnis, Loob, Roberts, Hull, and Suter? I hope so. If he has a career approaching any of those players, he'll be a hell of a player!

[Scoutski]

Unfortunately I can't remember where I saw it, maybe in the Jankowski thread on CP, but wasn't there some concern that most of his points and best performances came against bottom feeder type teams in the NCAA?

Looking at his game-by-game stats it seems well spread out to me? GAME STATS

I think the only other thing was that when he was drafted Feaster and Weisbrod gushed about how he had such amazing, otherworldly stickwork. I assumed that meant he was going to be a very solid goalscorer, which despite the fact he's not playing badly, doesn't look like he's gone that way.

At the end of the day, I'll admit I have watched maybe 2 games of his in his whole college career and couldn't say if he should move up or down. His FO% improvement is nice to see for sure.

[Red Menace]

I always felt these rankings should be strictly age based, why remove players simply because they are good enough to play in NHL....a truer sense of an organizations success and future would be to look at all players under a certain age, like U24 or something...then we'd really get a sense of which organizations have the brightest future.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

As one of the more vocal supporters of Gillies at that time, I have to say that I don't know how anyone could put Gillies ahead of Ortio today. Gillies has had a really good year - really good. But Ortio was kicking butt in the NHL. Period. Nuff said. No more contest.

Five games. Tiny sample size not worth assigning a "no contest" over.

I'd still put Gillies over Ortio on the basis of upside. Gotta remember that Ortio is almost three years older then Gillies when Ortio was the same age what he was doing wasn't anywhere near as impressive as what Gillies has been doing + he's got a huge physical advantage over Ortio with that towering frame of his.

That's not to say that I think Ortio isn't anything worthwhile. He's been impressive as well... it's good problem to have.

[Red Menace]

For me the the U25 rankings (born 1991 or later) are currently:

1. Gaudreau
2. Monahan
3. Bennett
4. Ortio
5. Granlund
6. Baertschi
7. Poirier
8. Wotherspoon
9. Shore
10. Gillies
11. Klimchuck
12. Ferland
13. Arnold
14. Jankowski
15. McDonald
16. Culkin
17. Reinhart
18. Hickey
19. Rafikov
20. Carroll
21. Smith
22. Sieloff
23. Kanzig
24. Agostino
25. Kulak
26. Van Brabant
27. Harrison
28. Gilmour
29. Ollass-Mattsson
30. Elson
31. Ramage
32. Roy
33. deBlouw

Not qualified with 1990 births; Jooris, Hanowski (not to mention Brodie, Bouma & Colborne)
Wolf is even an older, a 1989 birth year.

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

For me the the U25 rankings (born 1991 or later) are currently:

1. Gaudreau
2. Monahan
3. Bennett
4. Ortio
5. Granlund
6. Baertschi
7. Poirier
8. Wotherspoon
9. Shore
10. Gillies
11. Klimchuck
12. Ferland
13. Arnold
14. Jankowski
15. McDonald
16. Culkin
17. Reinhart
18. Hickey
19. Rafikov
20. Carroll
21. Smith
22. Sieloff
23. Kanzig
24. Agostino
25. Kulak
26. Van Brabant
27. Harrison
28. Gilmour
29. Ollass-Mattsson
30. Elson
31. Ramage
32. Roy
33. deBlouw

Not qualified with 1990 births; Jooris, Hanowski (not to mention Brodie, Bouma & Colborne)
Wolf is even an older, a 1989 birth year.

I think Bennett should be number 1.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Five games. Tiny sample size not worth assigning a "no contest" over.

I'd still put Gillies over Ortio on the basis of upside. Gotta remember that Ortio is almost three years older then Gillies when Ortio was the same age what he was doing wasn't anywhere near as impressive as what Gillies has been doing + he's got a huge physical advantage over Ortio with that towering frame of his...

But I would say that Ortio's first two AHL seasons have essentially made anything he did or didn't do in Europe basically irrelevant to his potential. While he is a few years older than Gillies, he is still a VERY young goaltender who is killing a league that ordinarily takes very good goalies years to master. By way of comparison, Kipprusoff was 25-years-old before he started to dominate in the AHL.

When Gillies does the same thing, then I will agree with you. But there are hundreds of examples of good college goalies who also adjust slowly to the pro game, or who fail to make the jump altogether.

I like Gillies a lot and I am also hopeful that he will one day be a big-game NHL starter. But the fact of the matter is that today, Ortio is MUCH closer and also more likely to reaching that goal.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But I would say that Ortio's first two AHL seasons have essentially made anything he did or didn't do in Europe basically irrelevant to his potential. While he is a few years older than Gillies, he is still a VERY young goaltender who is killing a league that ordinarily takes very good goalies years to master. By way of comparison, Kipprusoff was 25-years-old before he started to dominate in the AHL.

When Gillies does the same thing, then I will agree with you. But there are hundreds of examples of good college goalies who also adjust slowly to the pro game, or who fail to make the jump altogether.

I like Gillies a lot and I am also hopeful that he will one day be a big-game NHL starter. But the fact of the matter is that today, Ortio is MUCH closer and also more likely to reaching that goal.

And early success with a goalie means an awful lot less than later success, especially in the NHL. The hockey wastelands are littered with stellar junior and college goalies

[Red Menace]

Agreed, we all have high hopes for Gillies, but until he proves it in the AHL and then NHL as Ortio has done (with limited sample size in NHL for sure), then Ortio is clearly ahead of him in my mind....