that is my point though, it would be handled better
whether the blame is 90 Kane - 10 Rest of team or some other factor, the rest of the team is not handling it well either
they are young so its understandable, but to me it just seems like a bad fit, which is why I'd take a shot on a guy like that when his value is at it's lowest
Except you don't know that. You just want it to be that way because your need for validation has you trying to pump the Canucks' tires on a Flames forum in a thread about a Jets player.
You also ignored Erick's point. How does Henrik "the god and bestest player in the history of history" Sedin handle it if Kassian has been a problem for four or five years? Does he, or someone else in that room, finally reach a point of "enough is enough" and do something rather public to try and drive the point home?
It is pretty clear now that Kane has burned through just about any allies he had in that room. Ken Wiebe noted on the Fan960 this afternoon that Maurice was one of Kane's biggest supporters. And yet, Kane basically threw the coach under the bus.
You don't know what someone in the Canucks lockerroom would have done after several years of this, so please, spare us your lectures on how amazing the Canucks are.
The Following User Says Thank You to Resolute 14 For This Useful Post:
If you're thinking that it was more then one thing, then fine, fabulous. But right now, its on the record as this one incident that caused Kane to bail.
Even his agent is alluding to it being this one incident.
You realize this is exactly how the whole Dolphins thing started. Everyone thought it was one incident, but it wasn't.
But you are correct in saying its not as "bad" per se because of the various way Incognito went after Martin.
It's laughable that you think it is one thing, and my point was less about comparing the two and more about the message we are sending.
If there is kid who is a huge fan of Byfuglien in Winnipeg, and he sees Byfuglien being praised as a leader for sending a message by throwing Kane's clothes in the shower then what is going to stop him from doing it tomorrow and seeing no wrong from it.
Whether you are 10 or 50, or if you make $10 per hour or a million dollars is irrelevant. The act that Byfuglien played out here was bullying and he is a role model for many kids who will think it's alright since Byfuglien did it.
The dislike between Byfuglien and Kane goes back 5 years according to the reports. I would guess that the bullying could potentially go both ways, but maybe not. I would also get that this is clearly not the first thing and something pushed Kane over the edge.
As mentioned I doubt a guy who has never quit on the team before, has been playing through multiple injuries, and was lacing up in his home town would decide to just quit on his teammates based on this one incident.
But sure you can all just go around yelling "IT'S DIFFERENT", "IT'S ACCEPTED", "HE DESERVED IT BECAUSE HE'S AN IDIOT" and ignore that what Byfuglien did was wrong too.
I have a feeling that this is going to be very similar to the Martin and Incognito incident where many different incidents and events between those two are eventually going to get released.
A) Your making an assumption that there is more then one event here. What's next, if Buff pulled Kane aside and told him that his actions around the team were bs before this happened is that bullying?
B) until there is actually something more to this then the one incident, I will keep saying that I don't see this as bullying at all.
C) Comparing this to a truly repulsive series of events like the Incognito case is to me ridiculous. Please prove where Buff used racism, threats of violence against Kane and his family and used violence to get money from Kane. At this moment the comparison between Kane Buff and Incognito Martin is completely goofy, if it turns out that Buff used physical threats of violence, used Racism, threatened Kane's family and extorted money, then I will publicly stand up and apologize to you and the rest of the board. But throwing a person's fricken tracksuit in the shower because the player had violated team rules by wearing it to me is not a threat of violence, its a pretty innocuous way of stating to the player (Kane) that his actions in this case violating the teams dress code is unacceptable.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
You realize this is exactly how the whole Dolphins thing started. Everyone thought it was one incident, but it wasn't.
But you are correct in saying its not as "bad" per se because of the various way Incognito went after Martin.
Great and if the team or the NHL investigates it and we find out that Buff had been bullying Kane in those methods (Racism, violence etc) then I as a man will stand up and say holy frack I was wrong.
However this is coming across as the furthest thing from Incognito who is pretty much a know pyschopath as it gets.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I agree with Captain Crunch here. I have played many team sports and at the national level. Nothing usually works better than your teammates trying to set you straight. Not the coach, your parents, the management.
The pressure a team can put on a player, without violence or any other sort of hazing. What Buff did by throwing his stuff in the shower so he couldn't wear it out, is not bullying IMO. This isn't a bunch of high school kids bullying the wimp in gym class.
Does it make it right? Probably not the best way to handle it, but maybe they have tried everything else they can without violence or beat him up in the locker room to send him a message. Talking to him doesn't work, that seems pretty obvious. Benching him doesn't work, he has been benched a few times and he still does these sorts of things.
Kane has to take responsibility for a majority of this. I agree that the management should have done a better job of dealing with this.
If he goes and plays some where else, will he be different or still have clashes with his teammates and coaches? I wouldn't be willing to take a chance on him.
__________________
"You're worried about the team not having enough heart. I'm worried about the team not having enough brains." HFOil fan, August 12th, 2020. E=NG
How can he be put on IR retro actively to the 2nd. He played and finished that game.
You can go back to the last game played. So he is out minimum seven days from Feb 2, or a return no earlier than Feb 9.
TSN interviewed Byfuglien, and while he tried to remain neutral in his comments, he did slip in a comment about how its like having kids. You need to enforce the rules.
The Following User Says Thank You to Resolute 14 For This Useful Post:
A) Your making an assumption that there is more then one event here. What's next, if Buff pulled Kane aside and told him that his actions around the team were bs before this happened is that bullying?
Nope that is what should have happened. A real leader would have pulled him aside and said it was unacceptable and that he needs to be a better member of the team, and told him to leave the team meeting.
Then he would have went to the head coach and said that the locker room believes that Kane broke the rule and that as a result he should be a healthy scratch tonight. The coach would then tell Kane that his teammates made the decision that Kane wouldn't be in the lineup that night.
That is how it would be handled at any other place where a dress code infraction occurred. Just because it is a locker room doesn't mean taking somebody's property, throwing it in a shower, and embarrassing him should be a commendable action.
In terms of it being the first incident I am going by other reporters and posters mentioning that this is not the first time Kane has had his clothes destroyed, that is not liked by teammates, and that him and Byfuglien have issues going back 5 years.
I agree that the Incognito example is far more extreme and probably a bad example. I was using it as more of the case where when it was first released it was about Martin quitting on the team after one incident, and then the investigation showed it was more the result of a long term thing.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 02-05-2015 at 04:17 PM.
Nope that is what should have happened. A real leader would have pulled him aside and said it was unacceptable and that he needs to be a better member of the team, and told him to leave the team meeting.
Then he would have went to the head coach and said that the locker room believes that Kane broke the rule and that as a result he should be a healthy scratch tonight.
That is how it would be handled at any other place where a dress code infraction occurred. Just because it is a locker room doesn't mean taking somebody's property, throwing it in a shower, and embarrassing him should be a commendable action.
In terms of it being the first incident I am going by other reporters and posters mentioning that this is not the first time Kane has had his clothes destroyed, that is not liked by teammates, and that him and Byfuglien have issues going back 5 years.
I agree that the Incognito example is far more extreme and probably a bad example. I was using it as more of the case where when it was first released it was about Martin quitting on the team after one incident, and then the investigation showed it was more the result of a long term thing.
Based on reports, the Jets have had problems with Kane's attitude for quite some time. You're acting like this recent track suit incident is the first time anybody did or said anything about it.
How do you know they haven't already tried talking to him? On more than one occasion?
Like I said before. Don't make Kane a victim here. He's a victim of his own poor behaviour.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Buff For This Useful Post:
Nope that is what should have happened. A real leader would have pulled him aside and said it was unacceptable and that he needs to be a better member of the team, and told him to leave the team meeting.
My guess is that's the way things went down the first 5-6 times Kane defied the team rules and acted like a d-bag. Then measures escalated. By all accounts, this behaviour goes all the way back to Atlanta.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Based on reports, the Jets have had problems with Kane's attitude for quite some time. You're acting like this recent track suit incident is the first time anybody did or said anything about it.
How do you know they haven't already tried talking to him? On more than one occasion?
Like I said before. Don't make Kane a victim here. He's a victim of his own poor behaviour.
If they have problems with his behaviour they shouldn't have given him a 6 million dollar extension and he should have been a healthy scratch more then 2 times over the last 3 seasons.
If a players is being an idiot and breaking team rules then it should be handled. Clearly throwing his clothes in the shower, or cutting them up isn't working either because others have stated this isn't the first time this has happened either.
Just because we don't think the player is likeable doesn't mean the action of Byfuglien was commendable or showing good leadership.
It obviously isn't good leadership since the team now has this distraction and one of their best players decided to quit on the team (something he could have easily done before if was truly a quitter considering he has been injured all year).
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 02-05-2015 at 04:27 PM.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
In all seriousness... I have a question. How did the track suit end up in the shower if he showed up in it?
The agent says he (Kane) didn't have clothes to change into.
What did he do, change into his jersey and go to the meeting? Doubt it. Did he have an appropriate change of clothes which he did prior to the meeting? Again, I doubt it.
I agree with others, there might be far more in play than a simple "Lesson by throwing tracksuit in shower" here. That being said, those that say, "He brought it upon himself" perhaps have a point here too.
In all seriousness... I have a question. How did the track suit end up in the shower if he showed up in it?
The agent says he (Kane) didn't have clothes to change into.
What did he do, change into his jersey and go to the meeting? Doubt it. Did he have an appropriate change of clothes which he did prior to the meeting? Again, I doubt it.
I agree with others, there might be far more in play than a simple "Lesson by throwing tracksuit in shower" here. That being said, those that say, "He brought it upon himself" perhaps have a point here too.
one of the possibilities is he went in for treatment
so maybe it was just the top and he had a shirt underneath or something
The Following User Says Thank You to d_phaneuf For This Useful Post:
one of the possibilities is he went in for treatment
so maybe it was just the top and he had a shirt underneath or something
Thanks. That makes more sense. I was imagining a pile of tracksuit top and bottom then realized the story didn't fully make sense if that was the case.
I'm going to refrain from getting too combative here, but seriously, At the very worst this was a poor decision on Buff's part, and I'm not even sure I'd call it that since it seems to be the first time in years that someone actually managed to send a message to Kane that he understood. Stop calling it Bullying, it's insulting to actual victims
In all seriousness... I have a question. How did the track suit end up in the shower if he showed up in it?
The agent says he (Kane) didn't have clothes to change into.
Players work out after midday meetings. Usually very light and low impact but they still change.
__________________ "I think the eye test is still good, but analytics can sure give you confirmation: what you see...is that what you really believe?" Scotty Bowman, 0 NHL games played
The Following User Says Thank You to united For This Useful Post:
