[News] Bennett Out 4-6 Months with Shoulder Surgery *UPDATE* Back Skating

[Vulcan]

IIRC Treliving said he wasn't sure where Bennett was going yet. The operative word for me is 'going' and there are only two places where he can go, Kingston or Glens Falls. I know Hartley and his staff will judge the best spot for him. I hope he goes to the AHL for a conditioning stint and than comes back to Calgary but it won't be a big deal if he goes straight to Kingston either.

It seems we had almost the same discussion last summer and I said we'll have to wait and see how he performs, the same still holds true.

Oh yeah, if he goes to Glens Falls he can reacquaint himself with his old Kingston coach, Todd Gill.

[Lanny_McDonald]

This issue was discussed during the break between periods by the panel. Sutter talked about his kid coming off the same injury at a similar age (I think he was a year older) and how the best thing for the player was to go to junior and NOT to the AHL and play against men. He said that it is important to get the player to a position where they can succeed and junior is the right situation. He suggested it would be a mistake to put a young kid, who has not played a game since September, into a situation where he would not be successful. Sutter was adamant that junior was the best place for Bennett and he should head directly there. I was hoping they would mention RNH and how the Oilers mishandled him, but he focused on his son and the scenario he was intimately familiar with. Of course, Sutter doesn't know much about hockey or what it takes to get to the NHL, as a player, scout and parent, so we can ignore his wisdom.

[FlameZilla]

Which Sutter?

[Tinordi]

What's the basic cost-benefit of this issue?

What's the benefit to cost ratio of sending him down to junior versus putting him in the NHL?

Seems to be almost inconsequential difference in benefits and a large potential reduction in costs.

Most of the keep him up talk just smacks of impatience and fans wanting to play with their new toys instead of sober and clear eyed evaluation of the above.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

This issue was discussed during the break between periods by the panel. Sutter talked about his kid coming off the same injury at a similar age (I think he was a year older) and how the best thing for the player was to go to junior and NOT to the AHL and play against men.

For every player and under every circumstance? once again, I'm not saying that it is a mistake for the Flames to return Bennett to the OHL, but do think it would be short-sighted to send him back without a clear test of his ability to compete in the AHL or NHL. further, I have argued that the more time Bennett spends with the Flames in his recovery is better for him, given the access to team facilities, trainers, doctors, and coaches.

Originally Posted by New Era

He said that it is important to get the player to a position where they can succeed and junior is the right situation. He suggested it would be a mistake to put a young kid, who has not played a game since September, into a situation where he would not be successful.

I absolutely agree with this, but where Sutter and I differ is in the blanket assumption that Bennett cannot be successful playing professional hockey now. I'm not convinced.

Originally Posted by New Era

...I was hoping they would mention RNH and how the Oilers mishandled him, but he focused on his son and the scenario he was intimately familiar with.

What does Nugent Hopkins have to do with Sam Bennett? Two different players. Two different teams. Two totally different situations. Two different points in the season.

Originally Posted by New Era

Of course, Sutter doesn't know much about hockey or what it takes to get to the NHL, as a player, scout and parent, so we can ignore his wisdom.

We sure can if he is wrong about Bennett. Or is every player, scout and parent always right in every hockey decision he makes?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

What's the basic cost-benefit of this issue?

What's the benefit to cost ratio of sending him down to junior versus putting him in the NHL?

Seems to be almost inconsequential difference in benefits and a large potential reduction in costs.

Based on what? Without more direct access to the situation, I don't think we can say this with much conviction.

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Most of the keep him up talk just smacks of impatience and fans wanting to play with their new toys instead of sober and clear eyed evaluation of the above.

Are you serious? There are no scenarios in which Bennett could remain with the team in the event of "sober and clear eyed evaluation"? Rather to the contrary, all many of us who believe that Bennett could potentially play and succeed in Calgary this season have been fairly rigidly committed to the team doing their due diligence. We can't ask for much more than that.

[Tinordi]

My point is simple, what's the benefit of keeping him up? Is he really a better option than any players we have currently on the roster? Sure we'll never know, but looking at his NHL-E, his inexperience and youth, his slight stature, his just coming off injury are we really be clear eyed on just how much an 18 year old player would be able to incrementally give this club over halfway through the season? Is Sam Bennett the missing ingredient on this team? We're playing and winning pretty damn well without him.

Another argument can be made that his development is somehow hindered because he needs to play the pro game as soon as possible. I guess, but that's a weak argument IMO. Treliving is on the record saying there's very little risk of "overbaking" a player's development. Couple that with the fact that he hasn't played a game of hockey, pro or otherwise in a long time I find that incredibly hard to swallow that we'd be doing a disservice to his development by not keeping him up.

The argument that the Flames trainers are much better is also hollow. The bottom line is that Bennett isn't going to play hockey until he's been cleared to by a team of medical professionals and his condition will be monitored no matter where he is. To imply that there's some Jedi council of sports meds in Calgary while he'll be patched up by My Name is Earl in Kingston is not rooted in reality. There's good sports meds everywhere and rehabbing doesn't particularly change in practice in any material way between top level sports med practices.

Then what are the costs? Well on the flip side his development could likely be worse than if he went back down to junior. He certainly wont have as much playing time or playing in all aspects of the game, PP, PK, etc. He'll be at a much higher risk of injury by my read. What happened with RNH rings particularly loud.

So yeah, sure he could potentially play and succeed this year in Calgary. But the point is that's neither here nor there. It isn't important to the Flames franchise this year nor is it important to the development of the player himself, all at the cost of worse development and greater risk of injury.

Simply not worth it. Which is why I'd say he'll almost certainly be sent down.

[PeteMoss]

Not that I think he should play in the NHL, but Rich Sutter's kids situation (Lukas Sutter) is different in the sense he was never going to play in the AHL/NHL anyways. He was drafted but not signed by Winnipeg and then drafted late against last year by the Islanders.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

IIRC Treliving said he wasn't sure where Bennett was going yet. The operative word for me is 'going' and there are only two places where he can go, Kingston or Glens Falls. I know Hartley and his staff will judge the best spot for him. I hope he goes to the AHL for a conditioning stint and than comes back to Calgary but it won't be a big deal if he goes straight to Kingston either.

It seems we had almost the same discussion last summer and I said we'll have to wait and see how he performs, the same still holds true.

Oh yeah, if he goes to Glens Falls he can reacquaint himself with his old Kingston coach, Todd Gill.

I think we're all reduced to reading the 'tea leaves' in Treliving's answers. To me the operative word is 'the'....

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

For every player and under every circumstance? once again, I'm not saying that it is a mistake for the Flames to return Bennett to the OHL, but do think it would be short-sighted to send him back without a clear test of his ability to compete in the AHL or NHL. further, I have argued that the more time Bennett spends with the Flames in his recovery is better for him, given the access to team facilities, trainers, doctors, and coaches.

The time to test his ability is long gone. Tests take place in the pre-season, not in the heat of a playoff race. Bennett hasn't played a shift of hockey for four months. We've seen how seasoned professionals struggle to find their legs and deal with the pace of the game when they come back from injury. It is a different game and a different pace than when he impressed in those two exhibition games four months ago. It would be unwise to test an unproven player at this point in the season, not only from a player risk point of view, but also a risk to the team's results.

I absolutely agree with this, but where Sutter and I differ is in the blanket assumption that Bennett cannot be successful playing professional hockey now. I'm not convinced.

Sutter, a former 4th overall draft pick like Bennett, has a wealth of personal and professional experience to rely upon when it comes to making these assumptions. He knows what it is like to try and break into the NHL as a young player and he knows what it is like to try and come back from injuries. As a scout he has observed the development of a number of players we can't begin to comprehend. I think he has a little more insight than you, and his judgment holds a little more value in this discussion.

What does Nugent Hopkins have to do with Sam Bennett? Two different players. Two different teams. Two totally different situations. Two different points in the season.

They are similar players in many ways. Both high end draft picks who were/are physically immature compared to the competition. RNH was more of a pure skill player while Bennett plays with more of an edge, but their physical make up is the most important thing to consider. Bennett is still a skinny little kid. One that doesn't shy away from contact. He's going to put himself in positions to get physically abused, which RNH didn't. Why risk greater injury at this point?

We sure can if he is wrong about Bennett. Or is every player, scout and parent always right in every hockey decision he makes?

And what happens if he is right on Bennett? You risk Bennett's health and his development by throwing him into the deep end. Can you imagine the #### storm that would have resulted if Bennett got the Jones treatment from big Buff at the end of the second period last night, and was hurt as a result? Is that really worth while when you can just show some patience and see the kid in prospects camp in six months, after he eases his way back into competitive hockey where he has already established a baseline of success where you can better measure his performance and growth? Give the kid a chance to go back to junior and get his legs under him, put on some weight, strength and muscle, and then come back in the fall when he's 100% healthy and in a better position to compete. As he currently stands, he's four months behind the best players in the world.

The biggest question in this whole decision is what is the gain by inserting Bennett into the lineup? Is he going to add something the Flames are missing? Is he going to lead to some success that is unlikely without him? What do the Flames have to gain versus what do they have to lose? They gain very little by inserting him into the lineup right now, but if they do, they risk ####ing up the best prospect this team has ever drafted. That would be an epically bad decision when you consider how little the team could potentially gain by rushing a player along.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Bennett is skating with the Flames in practices now.

I don't see why people feel there is so much uncertainty here.

How will they know where he's at? How will they know if he can compete against NHLers or is an upgrade over other players on the roster?

Like this:

*fires puck into corner*

"Brodie! Bennett! Go!"

*blows whistle*

*carefully observes Bennett's performance against NHL players*

[Buff]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Which Sutter?

Yes.

...and you don't need to type out your speech impediment.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

The time to test his ability is long gone. Tests take place in the pre-season, not in the heat of a playoff race. Bennett hasn't played a shift of hockey for four months...It would be unwise to test an unproven player at this point in the season, not only from a player risk point of view, but also a risk to the team's results.

Bullocks. There are various and relatively risk free ways to test Bennett at this point, and with each test he passes, there should be no problem in gradually increasing the level of competition and challenge for him, potentially up to and including actual playing time at the NHL level.

Originally Posted by New Era

Sutter, a former 4th overall draft pick like Bennett, has a wealth of personal and professional experience to rely upon when it comes to making these assumptions...I think he has a little more insight than you, and his judgment holds a little more value in this discussion.

I have not once claimed any special insight, only that it is shortsighted for ANYONE—regardless of their age, experience, or vocation—to dismiss out of hand the possibility of Bennett's effectiveness and possible success in the NHL this season. Maybe Sutter is right. But he doesn't know that any more than any one of us, because every player is fairly unique. The people who know are the training staff, coaches and managers of the Flames. I'm comfortable with them making a responsible decision, and if they happen to decide that he should play NHL games, I have no problem with that.

Originally Posted by New Era

They are similar players in many ways.

David Pastrnak is arguably also physically similar to Bennett, and he seems to have handled his few NHL games relatively well. The point being, not all players are the same—even those who have similar traits and qualities.

Originally Posted by New Era

Why risk greater injury at this point?

Because the risk is mitigated.

Originally Posted by New Era

And what happens if he is right on Bennett?

Then Bennett should and will be returned to juniour. The thing is, while he is very likely right about Bennett, I think the most responsible course of action is to KNOW with a high level of certainty.

Originally Posted by New Era

The biggest question in this whole decision is what is the gain by inserting Bennett into the lineup? Is he going to add something the Flames are missing? Is he going to lead to some success that is unlikely without him? What do the Flames have to gain versus what do they have to lose? They gain very little by inserting him into the lineup right now.

I'm not convinced. He is a good enough player that he potentially could provide ALOT.

Originally Posted by New Era

...but if they do, they risk ####ing up the best prospect this team has ever drafted. That would be an epically bad decision when you consider how little the team could potentially gain by rushing a player along.

That is the key word right there. And in my mind, this is the most pertinent question: Is he ready? At what point is he being "rushed"? If he is ready to play now, then playing him now is not rushing him. Again, I am happy to acknowledge that he is probably not ready. But the question is not settled, and I really think the best course of action for the team and for Bennett is to settle on an answer.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Bennett is skating with the Flames in practices now.

I don't see why people feel there is so much uncertainty here.

How will they know where he's at? How will they know if he can compete against NHLers or is an upgrade over other players on the roster?

Like this:

*fires puck into corner*

"Brodie! Bennett! Go!"

*blows whistle*

*carefully observes Bennett's performance against NHL players*

This is the smartest post in this thread. People are so scared they're going to screw this guy up by rushing him, they ignore the fact that he's now testing himself against NHL players in notoriously up-tempo practices. They're going to know exactly where he stands.

[Huntingwhale]

“This isn’t saying one way or another, but an 18-year-old guy who’s gone through shoulder surgery — he’s been out for four months — coming into a league that’s going a million miles an hour, does that make a whole lot of sense?” asked Flames GM Brad Treliving, insisting the first priority is to take the time to make sure Bennett is fully recovered before making a move.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/02/02...nally-expected

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/02/02...nally-expected

Good find and exactly my thoughts.

[flambers]

I would be shocked, if he was not immediately assigned to OHL once he is ready to be activated from the IR.

I doubt he play's any games with the Flames, in my view Flames are working with him to ensure he recover's properly

[CliffFletcher]

That blithering dolt Eric Duhatscheck weighs in:

The Flames want to do the right thing for the long term, and know that it’s an unnecessary risk suiting up a young player, no matter how talented or precocious, when the league is revving up for a postseason push.

The likeliest scenario is that once Bennett gets medical clearance to play, the Flames will assign him to the OHL’s Kingston Frontenacs, who are managed by former Flames star Doug Gilmour, a player with a similar skill set to Bennett’s.

Flames decide whether to go big or go small with Bennet

So we have Sutter, Duhatschek, Treliving himself questioning the wisdom of putting an 18 year old who hasn't played hockey in months into his first NHL game when the rest of the league is firing on all cylinders. And against that we have... the fan excitement over a shiny new toy. I'm pretty confident I know how this will play out.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Good find and exactly my thoughts.

But what is Treliving talking about here? Is he answering a question about inserting Bennett DIRECTLY into the NHL lineup now? or is he talking about inserting Bennett into the NHL at some point this season?

These are my thoughts exactly as well: it makes no sense to plug Bennett into the Flames roster without a clearer idea of how he will play at a higher level of competition. In other words, the right thing to do might be to send him to Adirondack, and THEN make a decision.

[getoverit]

Im sure glad your not running our club first off. Secondly your soon going to be one disappointed puppy when Bennett returns to the OHL.
Bottom line is we all want to see him with the club, just now is not the time. It will be soon realized and for sure something to look forward to!

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Based on what? Without more direct access to the situation, I don't think we can say this with much conviction.


Are you serious? There are no scenarios in which Bennett could remain with the team in the event of "sober and clear eyed evaluation"? Rather to the contrary, all many of us who believe that Bennett could potentially play and succeed in Calgary this season have been fairly rigidly committed to the team doing their due diligence. We can't ask for much more than that.