SB 49 game thread....Seattle and New England

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Brady is the best QB of all time purely on the fact he accomplished everything Montana did with far less for receiver's.

He won Superbowls 10 years apart. Unprecedented.

[Flabbibulin]

Browner got up in Sherman's face pretty good after the INT. Im pretty sure they are buddies off the field, but think Browner was ticked at that 2-4 thing Sherman did-

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Brady answered the yearly debate who is the greatest QB in NFL history.
He owns or shares all the playoff and Superbowl passing records
Throws 50 times at the #1"D in the biggest game. Doesn't wilt after either Int's.
4 TD's to 4 different receiver's and once again drives the length of the field eating up almost 5 min leaving only 2 min for his opponent.
Brady once again did everything he could to put his team in position to win.
Brady is the best QB of all time purely on the fact he accomplished everything Montana did with far less for receiver's.

You do make some great points. However, it is much too hard to compare different era's. It is fun to do it though.

One thing in Brady's favor. Rules to protect the QB and open up the passing game in the modern era.

[tvp2003]

Just some more post-game food for thought: Belichick's decision to not call time-out and whether that played a role in Seattle's play call:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/02/bill...eattle-sehawks

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/s...-pete-carroll/

I don't think Bill could have possibly known the drive would end on an INT, but I liked how it was summarized in the first article:

Unless you have a DeLorean, flux capacitor, and a crazy, wild-eyed scientist, there’s no way to know what would have happened if Belichick had called timeout with 1:02 left on the clock. But we do know that Seattle was backed into a corner with Belichick’s game of clock chicken.

...

By the Pats not calling timeout, Seattle had the opportunity to throw the ball without fear of New England regaining possession. In essence, Belichick dared the Seahawks to make the most ill-advised pass in NFL history and the Seahawks were all too happy to comply.

[CaptainCrunch]

If that's true, that's the gutiest thing that I've ever seen by a coach that completely trusts that his d is going to make a play.

I was cursing BB as I watched that clock tick down to about 30 seconds.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Look how open the middle of the field is. Man on Man coverage with a rookie corner, no safety help. This article by Barnwell is fantastic.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/su...ttle-seahawks/

Great link -- thank you.

If I were to summarize the ending, the Seahawks simply outstrategized themselves by trying to keep as many options open while running off as much time as possible instead of simply letting Beast Mode get you in the end zone and leaving it up to your defence to preserve the win. Unfortunately for Seattle, the mistake came at the most crucial moment in the biggest game of the year.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If that's true, that's the gutiest thing that I've ever seen by a coach that completely trusts that his d is going to make a play.

I was cursing BB as I watched that clock tick down to about 30 seconds.

If Seattle scores, BB is the goat today instead of PC. It was just a great game with an unbelievable finish. I think if I was a Seattle fan, I would be haunted by that play for the rest of my life.

[Flabbibulin]

Poor Dont'a Hightower. Made an equally important play and no one will ever talk about it.

Btw, what is with so many people saying Seattle had 2 timeouts left? The fact that they had only one left, and Belichick didn't use his, is key to the decision to throw. Jim Rome has been going on all morning about how dumb the call was, built on the notion that they had 2 timeouts and could have run the ball on all 4 downs.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Poor Dont'a Hightower. Made an equally important play and no one will ever talk about it.

Btw, what is with so many people saying Seattle had 2 timeouts left? The fact that they had only one left, and Belichick didn't use his, is key to the decision to throw. Jim Rome has been going on all morning about how dumb the call was, built on the notion that they had 2 timeouts and could have run the ball on all 4 downs.

Funny that Jim is calling someone dumb when he doesn't even understand the situation to begin with.

[sa226]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Great link -- thank you.

If I were to summarize the ending, the Seahawks simply outstrategized themselves by trying to keep as many options open while running off as much time as possible instead of simply letting Beast Mode get you in the end zone and leaving it up to your defence to preserve the win. Unfortunately for Seattle, the mistake came at the most crucial moment in the biggest game of the year.

Exactly. Maybe it was the BB factor where Carrol felt he had to outsmart him or something, or at least try.

At a time like that, throw strategic nonsense out the window and let your best player be your best player. If they had a run of the mill RB ok. But they have arguably the best in the league. Just hand him the stupid ball and let him do what he does. If he doesn't score, they likely sleep a little more soundly than they did last night.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The more I think about it, the worse it looks. Consider that in 2014, the Patriots ranked as the worst team in the league in 1 yard situations (i.e. 3rd/4th and 1, goal to go from the 1). Then consider Seattle ranked as the second best power running team in the league. Maximum strength against maximum weakness, and Seattle goes away from it.

Carroll's explanation is actually atrocious. So he's got 3 chances to win the Super Bowl, and he's basically saying he wanted to throw a play away to set up 3rd and 4th down? What kind of idiocy is that? It's the quintessential case of over thinking a situation. He was actually scared here New England would come back and tie it or win it (likely from experience...Green Bay 2 weeks ago, Atlanta in 2012), so he was more concerned about the clock than simply scoring, which should have been his only consideration. If Tom Brady makes some miracle comeback, so be it.

Then consider the target of the play, Ricardo Lockette, has 18 NFL catches...ever (4 seasons). Not in just the playoffs, not just this year,...ever. That was the target of the play to win the game. And this from an incredibly weak Seattle receiving core. It's not like they have great weapons to choose from, Lynch is probably their most dangerous receiver.

With the result of the play (a Super Bowl loss), it's really hard to not have it as the worst play call ever. If they ran Lynch 4 times in a row from a goal to go situation, no one would question anything, it'd be riding your horse as you should and if they stop him, tip your cap. Instead Seattle thought they would outsmart everyone. In the end they outsmarted themselves. If not the worst play call ever, certainly the most arrogant.

The offensive coordinator got scared. Maybe the 3rd and 1 stuff in the 3rd quarter had something to do with it but when the Pats lined up defensively on 2nd down, he didn't like running Lynch anymore.

(Personally I don't think there's defensive formation in this solar system that would scare Lynch, but that's what he thought.)

The right play would have been to audible and throw it into Row Z or at worst call their last timeout. No timeouts with 18 seconds left would still have been ok.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

If Seattle scores, BB is the goat today instead of PC. It was just a great game with an unbelievable finish. I think if I was a Seattle fan, I would be haunted by that play for the rest of my life.

I think BB played it right. If he keeps calling timeouts then he allows Seattle to use Lynch, their greatest weapon, continuously.

Let the clock run down and Seattle might be crazy enough to throw it. NFL offenses see 30 seconds and usually panic.

[troutman]

Statistically, is Lynch fumbling more likely than an interception?

http://www.nfl.com/player/marshawnly...63/careerstats

Only 3 fumbles in 2014, in 280 attempts.

Wilson 7 INTs in 452 attempts.

http://www.nfl.com/player/russellwil...75/careerstats

[Flabbibulin]

^^^as mentioned, Russell Wilson had only thrown 2 redzone interceptions in his entire career coming into these playoffs.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Carroll's explanation is actually atrocious. So he's got 3 chances to win the Super Bowl, and he's basically saying he wanted to throw a play away to set up 3rd and 4th down? What kind of idiocy is that? It's the quintessential case of over thinking a situation.

You got it here, Davis. This was a classic case of over-thinking. I can see why Carroll ordered the pass on 2nd down to save the clock but at that stage of the game, you simply had to give it to beast mode no questions asked.

The other point that no one has mentioned was the crucial Seattle offside call when NE got the ball back. NE at their half yard line pretty much can only throw it 4 times because they can't risk Seattle scoring a safety.

It was very probable that Seattle will get the ball back with precious seconds left.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think BB played it right. If he keeps calling timeouts then he allows Seattle to use Lynch, their greatest weapon, continuously.

Let the clock run down and Seattle might be crazy enough to throw it. NFL offenses see 30 seconds and usually panic.

No doubt, it's just interesting hearing all the armchair coaches and QB's talking about what should have been done. It's sports, anything can happen and usually does. It's unpredictable, and that is what makes it so entertaining.

Seattle scores on that pass and Pete Carrol is being heralded as the smartest coach ever today.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by darklord700

You got it here, Davis. This was a classic case of over-thinking. I can see why Carroll ordered the pass on 2nd down to save the clock but at that stage of the game, you simply had to give it to beast mode no questions asked.

The other point that no one has mentioned was the crucial Seattle offside call when NE got the ball back. NE at their half yard line pretty much can only throw it 4 times because they can't risk Seattle scoring a safety.

It was very probable that Seattle will get the ball back with precious seconds left.

That was disappointing. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for that to play out.

[darklord700]

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/...nds/ar-AA8TIIR

A good point of view on the actual screw up happened on 1:06 when Seattle couldn't line up and had to burn a timeout. Had that not happened, Seattle would have had 2 TO left with 26 seconds on the clock.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by troutman

Statistically, is Lynch fumbling more likely than an interception?

http://www.nfl.com/player/marshawnly...63/careerstats

Only 3 fumbles in 2014, in 280 attempts.

Wilson 7 INTs in 452 attempts.

http://www.nfl.com/player/russellwil...75/careerstats

Looking at that, it is pretty close. When you factor in that a short slant has an even lower chance of being intercepted and a short run to win the game will have everyone going after the balll.... then it is probably a wash.

They pretty much had to pass on one of those downs.

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by darklord700

NE at their half yard line pretty much can only throw it 4 times because they can't risk Seattle scoring a safety.

It was very probable that Seattle will get the ball back with precious seconds left.

There would have been no way NE did anything but a quarterback sneak in that situation and with Brady's prowess at that play (and only needing to get back to the line of scrimmage) it would have been highly unlikely for Seattle to get it back...but not impossible.