Myth 7: Infectious diseases are not serious; children are meant to get them.
Just because they’re called “childhood diseases” doesn’t mean it’s okay for kids to get them and neither are they necessarily benign. Let’s take a look at whooping cough as an example, since Australia has been the grips of an epidemic for several years now.
Whooping cough is much more than “just a bad cough”. Kids often turn blue from lack of oxygen during coughing fits, they may vomit after severe attacks, and even fracture ribs. There is no cure for whooping cough – antibiotics are given to help stop the transmission to others – you just have to hope your immune system can fight it. Severe complications such as pneumonia and brain damage occur almost exclusively in unvaccinated people and in babies under 6 months of age the symptoms can be severe or life threatening. Whooping cough is also known as the 100-day cough making it a chronic and potentially fatal disease.
If you still think infectious diseases are harmless, wander through your local cemetery one day and note how many children died from diseases that we no longer see in society today – stamped out largely due to mass vaccination. Some of us are old enough to remember the images of children in iron lungs and calipers during the scourge of polio, which was wiped out by vaccination.
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My wife's sister is anti-vaccine. Her and her kids came to may house just before Christmas and the discussion came up. I refrained from getting into it too much, but at one point she mentioned that it is good when a child gets a childhood disease because after they recover, they gain a "natural" immunity to the virus. I had to face palm on that little bit of wisdom. All I said; "Yeah, that sounds more convenient than getting vaccinated".
She then mentioned other theories about how recovering from illnesses is good mentally for a child and builds character... I can't recall exactly what she said, because I tuned out.
Tell her talk to her grandparents about the classmates they had that went through Polio.
My wife's sister is anti-vaccine. Her and her kids came to may house just before Christmas and the discussion came up. I refrained from getting into it too much, but at one point she mentioned that it is good when a child gets a childhood disease because after they recover, they gain a "natural" immunity to the virus. I had to face palm on that little bit of wisdom. All I said; "Yeah, that sounds more convenient than getting vaccinated".
She then mentioned other theories about how recovering from illnesses is good mentally for a child and builds character... I can't recall exactly what she said, because I tuned out.
You are a better man than I. I wouldn't have let any of that slide.
I mean at first I'd be polite and not likely correct, but the whole "natural immunity" argument is so asinine that I don't trust myself to let that go, especially if I've had a drink or two.
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You are a better man than I. I wouldn't have let any of that slide.
I mean at first I'd be polite and not likely correct, but the whole "natural immunity" argument is so asinine that I don't trust myself to let that go, especially if I've had a drink or two.
I have cousins that no longer talk to me because I told them that was terrible parenting and they're putting their children's lives at risk because they like to go against the grain.
You are a better man than I. I wouldn't have let any of that slide.
I mean at first I'd be polite and not likely correct, but the whole "natural immunity" argument is so asinine that I don't trust myself to let that go, especially if I've had a drink or two.
I just can't argue any more. I could go on and on about the lunacy they believe in.
- Anti-vaccine as mentioned.
- Anti tooth brushing because toothpaste has chemicals. The 9 year old was crying in pain one night because his tooth was in so much pain. I offered her ambesol, but her solution was cloves.... get him to chew on cloves. She also gives them cod liver oil (which is fine, I actually grew up on it), but she says that it heals cavities.
- She tried to convince someone in her family with cancer to stop treatments and try homeopathy.
- At Christmas one year, she made us watch "The Secret" and is still strongly promotes it.
- For a living, she practices Reiki healing. Apparently people pay for it, but I am pretty sure that her folks are subsidizing her.
- She home schools all the kids, which in itself might not be that bad, but with 4 of them, it will be like ground zero for an epidemic of future lunacy I fear.
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I just can't argue any more. I could go on and on about the lunacy they believe in.
- Anti-vaccine as mentioned.
- Anti tooth brushing because toothpaste has chemicals. The 9 year old was crying in pain one night because his tooth was in so much pain. I offered her ambesol, but her solution was cloves.... get him to chew on cloves. She also gives them cod liver oil (which is fine, I actually grew up on it), but she says that it heals cavities.
- She tried to convince someone in her family with cancer to stop treatments and try homeopathy.
- At Christmas one year, she made us watch "The Secret" and is still strongly promotes it.
- For a living, she practices Reiki healing. Apparently people pay for it, but I am pretty sure that her folks are subsidizing her.
- She home schools all the kids, which in itself might not be that bad, but with 4 of them, it will be like ground zero for an epidemic of future lunacy I fear.
I have a close family friend like that. Her nephew is autistic.
We have spoken at length of the lack of connection between the two. Usually she is a very analytical person.
I guess she is too close to this.......
I, like you, no longer discuss the topic with her.
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My wife's sister is anti-vaccine. Her and her kids came to may house just before Christmas and the discussion came up. I refrained from getting into it too much, but at one point she mentioned that it is good when a child gets a childhood disease because after they recover, they gain a "natural" immunity to the virus. I had to face palm on that little bit of wisdom. All I said; "Yeah, that sounds more convenient than getting vaccinated".
She then mentioned other theories about how recovering from illnesses is good mentally for a child and builds character... I can't recall exactly what she said, because I tuned out.
This to me is child neglect/endangerment, end of story. There is no excuse for not preventing an illness in a child with readily available means to do so. Do people not realize that although the chance of a child dying is small for things like measles, there is risk of life long complications such a deafness. Google whooping cough in babies and watch the youtube video, then ask yourself if that in some way helps build character in the infant struggling to breathe.
There was the case of that poor little boy who died a few years back in Calgary because he had Pneumonia and his nut job mother didn't take him to the doctor because she believed only herbs could cure him. Or that native girl who has Leukemia and is being treated with vitamins in that hucksters compound in Florida. These are parents that are neglecting their children and should be called on it. Many different shades but all the same problem, child neglect, and claiming it is because you love your child too much is not valid.
The fact we even have to have this debate in a modern supposedly educated society is very disheartening.
Again, listen to the testimony of an unvaccinated child on why that parental choice was so wrong:
A one year-old just died. Paramedics were called but he was gone by the time they got there,” the resident spoke softly, obviously affected by the news. “What happened?” I asked. She told me that the child had been seen in the ER two days earlier, was diagnosed with measles and sent home. My heart sank. I had sent home a one year-old child with measles two days earlier. Was this the same child? It was. He had looked so good two days earlier, responsive, alert and in no distress. The careful follow up instructions that were given were not followed and the child developed complications and arrested. I will never forget how I felt when he died.
He died, needlessly, because his mother and aunt did not believe in immunizations. He was one of 7 cases of measles in the family, 4 of whom were hospitalized. I was so angry at his parents and his aunt. I held them responsible for the child’s death. Their decision to believe false information from vaccine fear-mongers over the advice of their doctor was to blame for his death. Arrogance and ignorance ended his life.
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As a doctor I have spent hours upon hours trying to convince such parents of the importance of protecting their children. The years have proven that such efforts by me are futile. As these are emotional and irrational decisions, rational arguments have no effect. I have reached a place where I don’t argue anymore. I tell parents that vaccines have been proven safe and that if they refuse to vaccinate their children that I will not provide care for their family. I will not stand by while they risk the health of their child and I do not want my other patients placed at risk. There is no negotiation. Their position need not be heard, tolerated or respected.
It is time that society take a similarly firm stance. There is no duty to respect a foolish position.
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I am by no means telling mothers and fathers out there what to do; I’m simply standing up for every parent’s right to make his or her own decision. You may choose to follow the government-recommended immunization schedule for your child, and that’s your decision as a parent. And I might choose to unleash rubella on thousands upon thousands of helpless people, and that’s my decision as a parent.
Onion <3
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Look, I’ve done the research on these issues, I’ve read the statistics, and I’ve carefully considered the costs and benefits, and there’s simply no question in my mind that inciting a nationwide health emergency by unleashing a disease that can kill 20 percent or more of its victims is the right one for my child.
People need to respect that and move on.
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Just wanted to comment on the clove for toothache. First the kid needs a dentist but clove oil is fantastic for toothache. I've had the joy of 3 root canals the past year (no cavities for 27 years but fillings I got when 12 cracked my teeth). The dentist uses a clove oil derivative in the temporary packings. Can't stand the taste but it works.
But it isn't a substitute for a dentist. It's pain relief until you get to one.
I will say I have seen a noticeable decrease in posts from people I know to be anti-vaxx, usually they would comment if I posted something about vaccinations, no longer.
Maybe we are slowly changing minds?
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I will say I have seen a noticeable decrease in posts from people I know to be anti-vaxx, usually they would comment if I posted something about vaccinations, no longer.
Maybe we are slowly changing minds?
I feel a little bad because I was arguing from what probably seemed like an anti-vaccine angle back when the whole H1N1 frenzy was going on. We had people on here calling other people murderers for not running out to get vaccinated right away and it was pissing me off. I just feel that it is worth waiting sometimes to put something rushed off the assembly line into your body (whether a vaccine, supplement, or any medication really), especially when the supply was limited. I also questioned how bad the epidemic really was (our media tends to hype things up and in hindsight, it does appear that it was overblown). It wasn't a question of whether vaccinations in general work, but just whether the one they were pumping out were necessary for everyone at that time.
I think the vaccination cause was hurt by the H1N1 scare, at least in the short term. There seems to have been significant blow black by a large portion of the population because of it.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
I feel a little bad because I was arguing from what probably seemed like an anti-vaccine angle back when the whole H1N1 frenzy was going on. We had people on here calling other people murderers for not running out to get vaccinated right away and it was pissing me off. I just feel that it is worth waiting sometimes to put something rushed off the assembly line into your body (whether a vaccine, supplement, or any medication really), especially when the supply was limited. I also questioned how bad the epidemic really was (our media tends to hype things up and in hindsight, it does appear that it was overblown). It wasn't a question of whether vaccinations in general work, but just whether the one they were pumping out were necessary for everyone at that time.
I think the vaccination cause was hurt by the H1N1 scare, at least in the short term. There seems to have been significant blow black by a large portion of the population because of it.
Which is funny, but the statistics show that vaccination is likely the biggest reason it wasn't even deadlier than it could've been. There's blow back because the very behaviour that was asked for did what it was supposed to.
Which is funny, but the statistics show that vaccination is likely the biggest reason it wasn't even deadlier than it could've been. There's blow back because the very behaviour that was asked for did what it was supposed to.
Possibly, but from what I read it is still uncertain exactly how much of a role it played in those first few months. At the same time the H1N1 frenzy was occurring, many people started taking other preventative measures regarding hygiene and self-quarantine which probably played a big role (I recall hand sanitizer popping up everywhere for example). The vaccine may have been a piece of the puzzle though, so don't get me wrong. I just recall stories at the time that stated the vaccine was only 20-40% effective when it was first rolled out, which kind of scares me to think that some people were likely getting a false sense of security which may have led to more riskier behavior. At some point, if the effectiveness of a vaccine is below a certain level, the returns are not necessarily positive.
Having said that, recent studies show that right now, the current H1N1 vaccine is upwards of 90% effective, which is quite amazing in my opinion, and that since 2009, the number of infections has likely been reduced by 70% due to flu vaccinations. So taken as a whole, the H1N1 vaccine was a success, but I still question how it was rolled out in the beginning, especially considering the effectiveness was unknown at the time.
Sort of OT but related, but I recall years ago reading an article about a potential HIV vaccine that worked, but had a really low rate of working (I think it was around 10% or something like that). They determined that because vaccinated people in a population tend to feel more secure and take fewer precautions, that in order to actually reduce HIV transmission in a population, the vaccine would need to be at least 40% effective before rolling out. It was a long time ago, so the numbers might be a little fuzzy now, but that was the gist of it. Obviously predicting human behavior is not easy and HIV is not the same as the flu (I would argue that HIV while more serious, is actually harder to catch), I think the same principle would apply.
I am sure you know more about this than I do though, so what is your take?
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 01-27-2015 at 11:29 AM.
