Dennis wideman

[FlamesAddiction]

I do think he gets a bad rap. His turnovers can be frustrating, but he isn't a negative commodity by any stretch. I am glad we have him.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by codynw

The top 4 isn't the problem. It's everything below that. One injury to the top 4 and one of Smid, Engelland or Diaz are forced to play in the top 4. That is no good.

I agree with the last half of your statement, but disagree with the first.

I think Russell/Wideman are both better suited as #4, but not together.

I think Smid/Engelland are both better suited as #6, but not together.

To me, Smid - Wideman would make an ok bottom pairing, as would Russell - Engelland.

The problem, as I see it, is we're missing that #2 guy, that would push Brodie to the second pairing, or a solid #3 to play with, preferably Russell.

Giordano - Brodie
Russell - solid #3
Smid - Wideman
Engelland

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

missing that #2 guy, that would push Brodie to the second pairing

Shea Weber? Drew Doughty? Duncan Kieth? PK Subban? Zdeno Chara? Ryan Suter? Niklas Kronwall?

.....Those are just about the only guys that might push Brodie to the second pairing.

Giordano - Brodie
Russell - solid #3
Smid - Wideman
Engelland

I'm still in favor of pushing a forward to the stay-at-home job. Something like

Gio-Brodie
Russell-Wideman
Byron-Smid

Just as an experiment until they make some moves in the offseason and maybe bring up wotherspoon/culkin etc.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Shea Weber? Drew Doughty? Duncan Kieth? PK Subban? Zdeno Chara? Ryan Suter?

Those are just about the only guys that would push Brodie to the second pairing.



I'm still in favor of pushing a forward to the stay-at-home job. Something like

Gio-Brodie
Russell-Wideman
Byron-Smid

Just as an experiment until they make some moves in the offseason and maybe bring up wotherspoon/culkin etc.

Not to be a dick, but these Byron to defense suggestions are so silly. I initially assumed they were a joke, but they seem to be serious. Paul Byron is a very nice 4th line forward. He is nothing more until he starts to finish, and nothing less. He relies upon his speed to put pressure on defensemen on the forecheck, and cannot do that from the blueline.
Also, he would get eaten alive trying to contain the front of our net. He is a lot stronger than he looks, but that has a lot to do with his speed. he is not a "clear the net" kind of guy from a stationary position.

[calgary2220]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Shea Weber? Drew Doughty? Duncan Kieth? PK Subban? Zdeno Chara? Ryan Suter? Niklas Kronwall?

.....Those are just about the only guys that might push Brodie to the second pairing.



I'm still in favor of pushing a forward to the stay-at-home job. Something like

Gio-Brodie
Russell-Wideman
Byron-Smid

Just as an experiment until they make some moves in the offseason and maybe bring up wotherspoon/culkin etc.

I think your missing a name on your list! TJ Brodie He has proven himself as a #1 guy in the NHL!!

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

This can't be serious?

Despite his offensive output he is still clearly a major liability in his own zone and his skating is nowhere near good enough to make up for those shortcomings.

Why not serious? You need your top 4 guys to contribute, and he does. Sure he has some issues in his own zone, but he makes a fantastic 1st pass and I find him to be quite shifty on his skates. Maybe not the fastest, but he can turn on a dime and spin off checks. When he plays with confidence like he is now, he's a pretty solid defenseman. Wideman contributes more to the team winning then he does to it losing.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'm still in favor of pushing a forward to the stay-at-home job.

I've seen you post this a few times now, and at the risk of sounding abrasive or being overly critical, what in the heck are you thinking? It's hard enough for a forward to play D in beer league.

I appreciate your creativity but having Paul Byron playing defense in the NHL is just....I can't even

[DoubleF]

Theoretically, if we split Gio and Brodie and brought in Wotherspoon to be mentored by one of them, what do you think the lines would look like? Would it even be considered a reasonable set of lines?

I know of course an idea like this would likely scuttle Norris talks for Gio this year, but what about next year? (Assuming no reasonable D available)

I also think Widemans production falls if split from Russell even if you put Brodie or Gio with him

[bob-loblaw]

I've always liked Wideman but his injuries in the first two seasons here really affected his play. I know he was benched at the beginning of the season and he's been definitely playing better since then.

Unfortunately his contract is like an anchor for him and taints the opinion of him as a player. If he was getting $1.5M less we'd probably be ecstatic about the guy and more forgiving of his defensive miscues, but he wasn't offered his contract because of his defense prowess.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bob-loblaw

I've always liked Wideman but his injuries in the first two seasons here really affected his play. I know he was benched at the beginning of the season and he's been definitely playing better since then.

Unfortunately his contract is like an anchor for him and taints the opinion of him as a player. If he was getting $1.5M less we'd probably be ecstatic about the guy and more forgiving of his defensive miscues, but he wasn't offered his contract because of his defense prowess.

Why? Flames are a salary cap floor team. His contract is actually beneficial in meeting the cap floor. By the time the Flames are looking to spend close to the salary cap ceiling his contract will be expiring. I have no problems with this contract whatsoever as he's been a solid bridge player for this team contributing top 4 minutes while rebuilding.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Shea Weber? Drew Doughty? Duncan Kieth? PK Subban? Zdeno Chara? Ryan Suter? Niklas Kronwall?

.....Those are just about the only guys that might push Brodie to the second pairing..

I like Brodie, but that is fan boy talk.

My point still stands, we need another #2/#3 defenceman.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I like Brodie, but that is fan boy talk.

My point still stands, we need another #2/#3 defenceman.

Is it #2 or #3 that you think we need then? Do you think Brodie is a top pairing defenseman or not?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Not to be a dick, but these Byron to defense suggestions are so silly. I initially assumed they were a joke, but they seem to be serious. Paul Byron is a very nice 4th line forward. He is nothing more until he starts to finish, and nothing less. He relies upon his speed to put pressure on defensemen on the forecheck, and cannot do that from the blueline.
Also, he would get eaten alive trying to contain the front of our net. He is a lot stronger than he looks, but that has a lot to do with his speed. he is not a "clear the net" kind of guy from a stationary position.

Maybe I'm being ridiculous. I probably like experiments and ballsy moves too much.

Yes, there are moments where Byron will initiate a forecheck out of sheer explosiveness in the offensive zone, but his biggest strength on this team to me is his ability to backcheck and he's a complete hawk on passing lanes. Having him lead the rush has gotten us what, twenty missed chances? If there were a guy skating ahead of him on half those rushes, it might have lead to something. I see his explosiveness as being more useful in the neutral zone and defensive zone than on offense.

The reason I want Byron as a #6 D-man is because I think he's a good hockey player that can bring elements to the table, but he has limited place on our bottom 6 forwards line. I think he has a feel that would let him adapt to the role, and I trust him with the puck in any zone except in front of the crease.

As for the second part, I've always felt small D-men get no fair shake even when they're flat-out performing, especially on bottom pairings. Tobias Enstrom comes to mind as a guy I bet no one here would want on the team because he can't "clear the net". I'd take him in a heartbeat personally. Being undersized is a problem if the whole line is undersized, but hockey is not a vertical game, and especially recently that's why you see guys like McGrattan pushed out of the league despite still having their legs beneath them.

Smid and Engelland can clear the net, what does that get us when they're together, a combined -24 on the season out of two players alone? Why not pair two contrasting players together and see what happens? We're not exactly talking about fixing what ain't broke.

I've seen people throw out putting wideman down on the bottom line as a #5 + PP guy but I stll see that failing big time because he's just as slow as Smid and Engelland. He's been a perfect fit beside Russell in my opinion.

Maybe it's the fact that I'm a basketball fan as well, and there I've seen some ridiculous experiments work in the right systems with the right players. Stuff that only insane HoF coaches would even have the courage to attempt. And that's a game where positions used to be more strictly defined.

You're probably right, I'm probably wrong/insane. I guess I should just shut up so I will.

[Major Major]

lol, came in here to read some wideman praise after scoring yet another clutch goal only to find that he is still terrible on an unmovable contract and that he should be replaced by Paul Byron or some other nonsense. What in the hell are you talking about?

[Vinny01]

He was pretty decent in year one of the deal. Last year with injuries he was no good but this year the offense is amazing and he is adequate in his own end. If he gets 15+ goals and 45+ pts I think the $5.25M is earned

[Fan in Exile]

Wideman makes me cringe at times. His skating isn't great, he can be sloppy with the puck and he fails to take his man too often. Because of those shortcomings, he's not a top pairing guy.

But come on guys. He has logged twenty plus minutes for every team he has played on since 2006, he's consistently better than .5 points a game and he is having a career year this year, just one short of his season high for goals after only 46 played with two game-winners and a few other clutch goals. He has 8 goals and 18 points at even strength. How does that make him a 5/6 defenseman?

I think 12 goals makes up for some of the defensive shortcomings. People seem to be on board with Russell being a #3 or #4 but Wideman has 12 more goals than he does. Players contribute in different ways and Wideman has definitely pulled his weight this year.

How about we get a solid 5/6 pair that allows Hartley to reduce the minutes that Gio/Brodie and Wideman/Russell have to play? Let's hope that's Wotherspoon helps make that happen. I have high hopes.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by heep223

Is it #2 or #3 that you think we need then? Do you think Brodie is a top pairing defenseman or not?

I think when he is on, he definitely is. I also think there were stretches this season where he wasn't.

If we got a #2 RH shot to play with Gio, the Flames would be a much deeper team having Brodie on the 2nd pairing.

If we got a RH #3 to play with Russell and left Brodie and Giordano alone I think we would also be a much better team. I think Smid and Wideman would make a decent bottom pair.

Engelland, to me, is the perfect 7th d/ 13th forward. He could play RW or on the bottom pairing, in case of injury.

I definitely do not think Brodie is top 5/10 in the league like the poster I replied to is suggesting.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Wideman makes me cringe at times. His skating isn't great, he can be sloppy with the puck and he fails to take his man too often. Because of those shortcomings, he's not a top pairing guy.

But come on guys. He has logged twenty plus minutes for every team he has played on since 2006, he's consistently better than .5 points a game and he is having a career year this year, just one short of his season high for goals after only 46 played with two game-winners and a few other clutch goals. He has 8 goals and 18 points at even strength. How does that make him a 5/6 defenseman?

I think 12 goals makes up for some of the defensive shortcomings. People seem to be on board with Russell being a #3 or #4 but Wideman has 12 more goals than he does. Players contribute in different ways and Wideman has definitely pulled his weight this year.

How about we get a solid 5/6 pair that allows Hartley to reduce the minutes that Gio/Brodie and Wideman/Russell have to play? Let's hope that's Wotherspoon helps make that happen. I have high hopes.

What's wrong with getting a better #3 and pushing Wideman down the depth chart? For sure he's playing well, but what's wrong with getting deeper?

It's not like the Flames are the best defensive team in the league. We are barely a playoff team.

[Phil Russell]

Originally Posted by Major Major

lol, came in here to read some wideman praise after scoring yet another clutch goal only to find that he is still terrible on an unmovable contract and that he should be replaced by Paul Byron or some other nonsense. What in the hell are you talking about?

Way to go Wideman! Love your attitude and your blistering, clutch goals! Your contract is fair and the Flames are fortunate to have you. I am sure there are many other teams out there that would be happy to pay you for your services. And Paul Byron? He needs to focus on burying the biscuit.

[StrykerSteve]

Wideman and Russell pairing has been terrific, you don't mess with it.