[PGT] Flames win in OT! 2-1

[codynw]

So, I fell asleep partway into the third period and missed the end. Damn these California games!

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by bob-loblaw

Is the gold bear on the boards holding Gaudreau's stick??? No wonder he's happy.

Haribo bear approves!

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CgyFlamesftw

This is true, as I did the same. Also the staples center has a history of favoring the kings with extra shots and hits.

How can we trust advanced stats when data is collected differently or wrongly in every arena?

[dsavillian]

Originally Posted by troutman

How can we trust advanced stats when data is collected differently or wrongly in every arena?

How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?

[FireFly]

Did anyone else notice Dennis Wideman is the 3rd Star on NHL.com?

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by troutman

How can we trust advanced stats when data is collected differently or wrongly in every arena?

I can assure you this does not affect the validity of the Corsi.


I keep wanting to make a short end of the stick joke for the Gaudreau pic, but I got nothing. Someone might want to keep that pic handy though. For future use.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by troutman

How can we trust advanced stats when data is collected differently or wrongly in every arena?

I've pointed this out in numerous advanced stats threads but was told the problem does not exist, even though it is a well known problem in hockey circles. I was attacked by the hardcore believers for pointing out the glaring weakness in the methodology. Be prepared for the same.

[Scoutski]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Did anyone else notice Dennis Wideman is the 3rd Star on NHL.com?

Definitely thought it was weird that it was him and not Joni? He's been first star twice in his four games which is pretty awesome.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by New Era

I've pointed this out in numerous advanced stats threads but was told the problem does not exist, even though it is a well known problem in hockey circles. I was attacked by the hardcore believers for pointing out the glaring weakness in the methodology. Be prepared for the same.

In fact, a lot of advanced stats guys track their own shots and scoring chances, as nhl.com just can't be consistently relied upon.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by troutman

How can we trust advanced stats when data is collected differently or wrongly in every arena?

That's why the puck tracking technology they are going to use for the all-star game should really even things up.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by troutman

How can we trust advanced stats when data is collected differently or wrongly in every arena?

It depends what you mean by trust. If you're relying on it to make decisions, then fair enough.

Two things that do speak to the validity.

1) it's going to be more accurate than the "shots" metric as there's not much subjectivity in whether a shot was taken or not vs whether it was on net. Most of the inaccuracy is "shots" not "shot attempts".
2) The fact that teams play in all the different arenas in the league will help to spread the deviations to make it more equal (though some home teams will naturally have an advantage)

It's certainly not perfect, but then neither is shots, plus/minus, hits, saves or a variety of other stats. In fact, it's probably more accurate that saves, save percentage, etc.

And New Era, you only get "attacked" because you're always on the "attack".

[automaton 3]

What a game!

Was thinking this morning - the Kings started to look a bit gassed in the 3rd/OT and the Flames started taking over. Wonder if the Flame's conditioning is paying off, or the Kings (who have played a ton of hockey the last few years) are wearing down.

Also, Doughty played a ton last night (31:51). You'd have to think they're in the market for a defencemen with Voynov's status up in the air.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

I've pointed this out in numerous advanced stats threads but was told the problem does not exist, even though it is a well known problem in hockey circles. I was attacked by the hardcore believers for pointing out the glaring weakness in the methodology. Be prepared for the same.

God, you're dramatic.

It was pointed out to you that while there is indeed a problem in the accuracy of shot counts from one building to the next, it is somewhat negligible when it comes to the results that are produced from large samples of data. There is plenty of information about this available by way of a simple google search. For example:

Applying our methodology to data from six regular seasons (2007-08 through 2012-13), we find that for the most part NHL rinks (and the individuals therein) do a reasonably consistent job of recording events. This is especially true of the recording of SHOTs, which has the fewest rinks with significant recording issues and has the smallest rink effects that we found...

While event counts are impacted by rink effect, ratios of events such as Corsi For Percentage remain relatively unaffected.

And I seriously doubt that anyone "attacked" you for pointing to this "glaring weakness." Given your own abrasive posting style, the responses that I have seen to your critical arguments against the validity of so-called advanced statistics by what I would consider rather level-headed proponents have been par for the course. This case is no different.

While I am not convinced about the effectiveness of CORSI, Rel. CORSI, Fenwick as measurements for predicting future outcomes, they DO remain useful statistics when applied in combination with other data.

[GioforPM]

Don't teams use their own stats guys to count stuff like shots, faceoffs, etc. anyway?

[united]

Originally Posted by troutman

How can we trust advanced stats when data is collected differently or wrongly in every arena?

You adjust for rink effects, which is pretty standard practice. Or track your own stats, also common practice.

Textcritic provided the link most use if you're interested in reading more into it.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by codynw

So, I fell asleep partway into the third period and missed the end. Damn these California games!

Try living in the East and staying up that late. I fell asleep at the same point, but it was 2 hours later for me. It was much easier on the West coast. Games start at 6 or 6:30. Done in time to watch a tv show with the wife before bed. Now I have to plan my sleeping habits around game times.

I don't know how anyone in European time zones watches anything.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Try living in the East and staying up that late. I fell asleep at the same point, but it was 2 hours later for me. It was much easier on the West coast. Games start at 6 or 6:30. Done in time to watch a tv show with the wife before bed. Now I have to plan my sleeping habits around game times.

I don't know how anyone in European time zones watches anything.

I have been home for the past six weeks, but for the first two months of the season, I watched all the games the next morning at work. It is a bit of a juggling act to self monitor my own early morning internet activity so as to ensure that I don't accidentally see the score, but it beats the hell out of becoming a vampire.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Now I have to plan my sleeping habits around game times.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

...for the first two months of the season, I watched all the games the next morning at work.

Awesome fans. Good work out there.

[bob-loblaw]

"I thought it was in, and I waved my arms," Wideman said. "Then they waved it off, and I didn't think that anymore."

Wideman saw a replay on the scoreboard that appeared to show the puck hitting the crossbar, but the Flames' video replay assistant yelled the good news to the bench.

"Usually the shooter has the best view," Calgary coach Bob Hartley said with a grin. "I always look at the one who shoots the puck, but he got to the bench and said, 'No, it wasn't a goal.'"

Maybe Wideman is Boring Sean Monahan?

[Coach]

I know Gaudreau has been getting a little attention for a production drop off, but I would just like to point out that within about a minute he set up prime chances for 5 or 6 guys to get the tieing goal right before Monahan scored.

He seemed pretty decent most of the night, but as soon as the game was in real jeopardy, you could see his level change. I'd like to see him at that form all the time.

Great, exciting game.