Israel lobbying countries to cut funding to Int'l Criminal Court

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Dont insult the intelligence of CP users. There are some smart people here..

I don't have time to answer to all of your hateful lies at the moment, but I will start with the pictures of the 'loss of land'. That has been debunked, you know it has been debunked, yet you post it repeatedly to attempt to fool people. This type of hate speech is pathetic. While terrorist groups, just like Hamas, are attacking innocent jewish people (and non jews) in assorted countries, you try anything to twist things around to appear Jews are the bad guys.

Here is one of many sites debunking the 'loss of land':

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/ste...s-map-of-lies/

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by HarryH93

I can't believe people still continue to ignore the fact that Israel demolishes homes, kicks Palestinians off their own land, and takes away their source of income (agriculture) yet they think Palestinians don't have a right to fight back for what's theirs. Absolute bull####

Please explain exactly how this is happening (rather than rhetoric).

[HarryH93]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Please explain exactly how this is happening (rather than rhetoric).

Besides personal stories I've heard from a number of Palestinians? Here you go. I hope you don't believe that stuff isn't actually happening..

http://www.icahd.org/no/faq

[HarryH93]

Not to mention Israel found it acceptable to demolish the homes of the Palestinians accused of the suicide car attack even though collective punishment is against international law.

[_Q_]

Meh, Israel acting like the pile of garbage pariah state that it is... Nothing new here.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'll take a stab. Keeping in mind, I may not know enough about these countries' histories to say definitively, but nothing stands out. All of these countries have warts I'm sure.

Norway
Denmark
Sweden
Finland
Canada - This is the greatest country on Earth, it's science. We have our faults but there's arguably no better.
Germany (Yes, they gave us Nazis, but have been model world citizens since, it seems)
France
Australia

Basically, keep the "superpowers" out of it. A country's size or economic prowess has no bearing on it's ability to judge crimes against humanity. I'm sure China, US and Russia would all cry about it but someone here has to man up to being held accountable, and all of these countries that are ideologically (or really) at war with each other would need to agree to adhere to it without being decision makers. There's really no reason why they should need to be.

I would probably add Japan to the list. I think a country like Brazil could be added as well.

I think in general the criteria would be free, liberal democracies who generally are not at war.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Meh, Israel acting like the pile of garbage pariah state that it is... Nothing new here.

Nothing new here. Mods this thread should be locked.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by HarryH93

I can't believe people still continue to ignore the fact that Israel demolishes homes, kicks Palestinians off their own land, and takes away their source of income (agriculture) yet they think Palestinians don't have a right to fight back for what's theirs. Absolute bull####

Whether or not "it" should be theirs, it's not theirs. They've lost it. The sooner they acknowlege that, the sooner they can have peace.

Palestine is the Black Knight in Monty Python.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by HarryH93

Besides personal stories I've heard from a number of Palestinians? Here you go. I hope you don't believe that stuff isn't actually happening..

http://www.icahd.org/no/faq

Oh, you mean the homes of terrorists? How do you fight an army that wants to die? Israel was forced to do something due to bus bombings, cafe bombings etc. People were murdering their citizens and being celebrated for it.

Israel bulldozes home? Israel is evil!!! The cafe bomber that murders teenagers? Yah, let's ignore him in the argument.

So Israel builds walls to defend itself? Israel is bad once again.

Nothing satisfies many of you, unless it is Israeli condemnation.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by SebC

Whether or not "it" should be theirs, it's not theirs. They've lost it. The sooner they acknowlege that, the sooner they can have peace.

Palestine is the Black Knight in Monty Python.

I think the answer is as simple as to stop the violence. Had a non violent approach been taken the entire area would be living side by side (like much of Israel currently). Unfortunately, as we have seen in much of the rest of the middle east, there are some underlying problems the Palestinians must resolve before they make peace with anyone.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Nothing new here. Mods this thread should be locked.

We did get two pages in before the thread descended into chaos. New record?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GGG

I would probably add Japan to the list. I think a country like Brazil could be added as well.

I think in general the criteria would be free, liberal democracies who generally are not at war.

Yeah I thought about Japan after posting. I'm sure there are quite a few countries I missed, especially smaller ones.

[cracher]

^ I can appreciate the inclusion of Germany on that list.

Are you able to qualify Japan by the same criteria? Germany f'ed up beyond belief in the 1930-1940s, but paid the price and really has been great since. Japan's current PM has been televised honoring military that many others see as war criminals. Someone in his government (was several months ago, don't remember who exactly) was also quoted denying war crimes were committed. I'm not convinced that Japan should be included on that list.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by cracher

^ I can appreciate the inclusion of Germany on that list.

Are you able to qualify Japan by the same criteria? Germany f'ed up beyond belief in the 1930-1940s, but paid the price and really has been great since. Japan's current PM has been televised honoring military that many others see as war criminals. Someone in his government (was several months ago, don't remember who exactly) was also quoted denying war crimes were committed. I'm not convinced that Japan should be included on that list.

Yeah, I honestly don't know much about the current regime of Japan, which is why I initially left them off. But their passive stance since WWII had me leaning their way. And again, it was kind of just thrown together based on where nations are at today and in the recent past.

As GGG said, really it would be just about keeping any countries currently at war off the judges bench. If engaged in any conflict, I don't see how you could be considered unbiased in something like this.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by cracher

^ I can appreciate the inclusion of Germany on that list.

Are you able to qualify Japan by the same criteria? Germany f'ed up beyond belief in the 1930-1940s, but paid the price and really has been great since. Japan's current PM has been televised honoring military that many others see as war criminals. Someone in his government (was several months ago, don't remember who exactly) was also quoted denying war crimes were committed. I'm not convinced that Japan should be included on that list.

You'd have major issues with Canada and Australia too. Both have significantly upset aboriginal populations.

[cracher]

^ Yeah, as you said previously, the list is real short.

Arbitrarily though, I'm not sure I'd compare the historial injustices committed by Canada and Australia to Japan going full-ISIS on many parts of Asia. While you certainly cannot and do not pin actions of the past on the current generation, it does irk me that the official government is repping it to an extent. It's almost like having deutsche heidnische front members in the German government.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by cracher

^ Yeah, as you said previously, the list is real short.

Arbitrarily though, I'm not sure I'd compare the historial injustices committed by Canada and Australia to Japan going full-ISIS on many parts of Asia. While you certainly cannot and do not pin actions of the past on the current generation, it does irk me that the official government is repping it to an extent. It's almost like having deutsche heidnische front members in the German government.

Canada was still operating residential schools into the mid 90s. For a lot of people that abuse is not so historical. Canada also continues to build extensively on disputed land. Can't comment on Australia, but I'm sure there are similar grievances.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by blankall

Canada was still operating residential schools into the mid 90s. For a lot of people that abuse is not so historical. Canada also continues to build extensively on disputed land. Can't comment on Australia, but I'm sure there are similar grievances.

But the Canadian solution is not currently to forcebly relocate people or kill people who are in the way.

I think the goal of this court is to hold accountable people who are committing war crimes or crimes against humanity. Canada's actions in residential schools don't really meet that criteria and Canada has worked to deal with the issues as a result.

So I think Canada is in a position to sit on this court.

What would disqualify us right now would be our current non-UN sacntioned missions in Iraq.

I don't think you have to say the country needs to have a perfect history but it needs to be applying a fundemental principle of equality of all people and valuing human rights internally before sitting on this court.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by GGG

But the Canadian solution is not currently to forcebly relocate people or kill people who are in the way.

Maybe not currently.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

But the Canadian solution is not currently to forcebly relocate people or kill people who are in the way.

I think the goal of this court is to hold accountable people who are committing war crimes or crimes against humanity. Canada's actions in residential schools don't really meet that criteria and Canada has worked to deal with the issues as a result.

So I think Canada is in a position to sit on this court.

What would disqualify us right now would be our current non-UN sacntioned missions in Iraq.

I don't think you have to say the country needs to have a perfect history but it needs to be applying a fundemental principle of equality of all people and valuing human rights internally before sitting on this court.

Firstly Canada forcibly relocated and killed a lot of people.

Secondly Israel does not relocate people unless the courts show they have built buildings illegally. The vast majority of housing demolitions occur in east Jerusalem, which is historically uninhabited and state owned. About 1/3 home demolitions are Jewish homes.

Essentially what's gong on is people are moving into east Jerusalem and building new homes on land they have no claim to. It'd be like me building a house in the middle of Fish Creek Park. Clearly the government would tear it down.