Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

\I found the article the images belonged too and posted the missing data in my original post, and here it is here:





http://www.chicagonow.com/an-agnosti...affleck-angry/

Thanks, that is definitely more helpful and at least they provide the tools to understand the data better. The way it is presented is still pretty misleading though.

Just using Bosnia as an example again as it is a place that I care about....

The original graph posted states that 15% of the people who support Sharia Law support the death penalty for leaving Islam. Fifteen percent sounds alarming, but then when you do the math:

Bosnia population = ~3.8 million
Muslim population in Bosnia is roughly 40% of 3.8 million (= 1.52 million).
Only 15% of Muslims polled support Sharia Law (= 228,000)
Only 15% of the 228,000 support the death penalty for leaving Islam (=34,200)

That ~34,200 is less than 1% of the total population of the country. That number is certainly less alarming. Even if you simplify it as simply the percentage of Muslims in Bosnia, it would be 2.25% of that specific demographic.

As someone else mentioned, you can find 1-2.25% of any population to believe is some pretty radical stuff.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by polak

Non-Extremists. Muslim or not.

So you are included in that number.



Again, get to the sharp end of the stick to give them "what they want and deserve".

[Hack&Lube]

The Islamization of France
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/41...ization-france

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Religion is the biggest problem with mankind.

No doubt. Sometimes I seriously believe that if there is other intelligent life in the universe (which there very well may be), they're leaving us alone until we sort our our primitive evolution and behaviour, religion being one of the main drivers of this. We're just a petri dish right now, and we're the main specimen - and you don't interfere with the subject in any experiment.

Also, as for believing in a god... if they're so powerful and existent, why don't they come down and show their face? I've never understood why they won't come down and meet their loving followers. Sounds pretty anti-social if you ask me.

[nik-]

Just going around checking different news sites and of course only CNN just has the laughably ridiculous front page regarding this.

It's sad what they've become.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

As someone else mentioned, you can find 1-2.25% of any population to believe is some pretty radical stuff.

Fun with stats (not picking on Americans here - just the first stats I found):
- ~6% of Americans in 2007 believe that it is "very likely" the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon was a stolen cruise missile instead of a plane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion...iracy_theories
- ~4% of Americans in 2011 believe that there are "Lizard people" and ~5% believe that the government is controlling people through chemicals in plane exhaust. http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/p...ies_040213.pdf

To be fair, I can't tell how many of the polled are just trolling...but...at these small %s, strange things pop up.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by nik-

Just going around checking different news sites and of course only CNN just has the laughably ridiculous front page regarding this.

It's sad what they've become.

Had to check it myself after you posted this. It almost feels like CNN is in Poe's Law territory. Are they legitimately this bad*, or are they participating in an elaborate, long-term piece of performance art in which they satirize the alarmist, fear-inducing media?

*Probably

[polak]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So you are included in that number.



Again, get to the sharp end of the stick to give them "what they want and deserve".

If this happend in Calgary, I probably would. I bet a lot of us would.

How would you react if members of a mosque in Calgary decided to shoot up Chinook mall or something because a store or something "offended islam"...

[CaptainYooh]

Despicable act of senseless violence. What kind of belief and conviction can't take some laughs? This is a developed country with a well-developed legal system. If you weak enough to feel the cartoons are hatred-speech, then challenge them legally. Why kill??? A few bad apples??? Right.

I wonder, who would be the first prime minister of a developed country that will openly speak to the Muslim community, in general, and Muslim religious leaders, in particular, without any more mincing of words? Who would say it bluntly: you are harboring radicalized individuals among you, most of the time you know who they are, you know they want to do harm, what are you doing about it? To state publicly: that this is NOT a few bad apples but a bad reflection on the whole community and Islam. To warn that if the community doesn't start acting swiftly and affirmatively, the government will. And the Government action could include stripping citizenships and deporting not only radical individuals but also those who were their silent accomplices.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by polak

If this happend in Calgary, I probably would. I bet a lot of us would.

How would you react if members of a mosque in Calgary decided to shoot up Chinook mall or something because a store or something "offended islam"...

Wait, you mean if a member or members of a certain group undertake an act or acts that may or maynot represent the views/opinions of all/majority of the certain group we can give them "what they want and deserve"?

So in short, if this happened in Calgary your response would be to round up a bunch of idiots in pick-ups and go attack Muslims?

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by polak

If this happend in Calgary, I probably would. I bet a lot of us would.

How would you react if members of a mosque in Calgary decided to shoot up Chinook mall or something because a store or something "offended islam"...

Indeed. Let's condemn the whole for the actions of a few. Because that doesn't sound like any other group of people out there right now...

[polak]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Wait, you mean if a member or members of a certain group undertake an act or acts that may or maynot represent the views/opinions of all/majority of the certain group we can give them "what they want and deserve"?

So in short, if this happened in Calgary your response would be to round up a bunch of idiots in pick-ups and go attack Muslims?

Might be. I really don't know how I'd react. I don't think you know how you would react either if Islamic terrorists attacked your friends and loved ones and you knew specifically what Mosque they were from. Maybe you do and you don't want to share it on a public forum.

I don't think I'd have it in me to hurt innocent people regardless of how angry I got but I'm sure I wouldn't be okay with just "letting it go". That's the only liberal reaction you could have to such an attack. Increasing security doesn't reduce extremism just gives it obstacles.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by kirant

Fun with stats (not picking on Americans here - just the first stats I found):
- ~6% of Americans in 2007 believe that it is "very likely" the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon was a stolen cruise missile instead of a plane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion...iracy_theories
- ~4% of Americans in 2011 believe that there are "Lizard people" and ~5% believe that the government is controlling people through chemicals in plane exhaust. http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/p...ies_040213.pdf

To be fair, I can't tell how many of the polled are just trolling...but...at these small %s, strange things pop up.

A couples polls on the crazy things people believe is quite different from a poll dealing with whether one supports actual physical acts of violence.

My hypothesis, and many others I'm sure, believe that the number of violent incidents that occur in the name of Islam has a correlation with the number of supporters they have within the religion- whether those supporters are willing to personally carry out the acts or not. The number willing to carry out these acts are bred from within the group of supporters, which would be much less likely to occur if the number of supporters and enablers was much smaller. Others seem to think radical Muslims would spring up and carry out atrocities, like we saw in France today, regardless of whether the number of supporters was large or small. And I'm not saying that radicals carry out these acts because they have a large fan base- I'm saying they are raised up from within that group, which would be much less likely to occur if the number of supporters was truly negligible.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Muta

Also, as for believing in a god... if they're so powerful and existent, why don't they come down and show their face? I've never understood why they won't come down and meet their loving followers. Sounds pretty anti-social if you ask me.

I'm not sure if it was Richard Dawkins or someone else I heard, but he was saying (satirizing) that for a guy who build this complex planet in six days, formulating fire, wind, water, earth, air, mountains, plains, volcanoes, etc. and building this perfect world for life . . . Why is he apparently so obsessed about things humans do now, like playing with their ######s or which direction you face when you pray? Does that sound like a competent, all-knowing entity that runs the show and loves everyone equally? Seems pretty petty to worry about stuff like that, given the size of the solar system and beyond.

Religion is a human manifestation and something to kill time with between birth and death.

[CaptainCrunch]

We are seeing that these random micro-terrorist attacks seem to be very successful.

We've seen it in Canada (twice) France, Austrailia and you can even count the Boston bombing as one.

If you were on the radical side of things you'd look at these attacks and call them highly successful.

I stated way back after the Ottawa attack that this was going to become the new normal, and its starting to look like it is.

The only way to counter this is with a heavy emphasis on intelligence gathering, that means infiltrating Mosques and Schools and looking for radical messages in these institutions.

There's no doubt that someone is recruiting heavily and whipping these people into a frenzy.

[polak]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We are seeing that these random micro-terrorist attacks seem to be very successful.

We've seen it in Canada (twice) France, Austrailia and you can even count the Boston bombing as one.

If you were on the radical side of things you'd look at these attacks and call them highly successful.

I stated way back after the Ottawa attack that this was going to become the new normal, and its starting to look like it is.

The only way to counter this is with a heavy emphasis on intelligence gathering, that means infiltrating Mosques and Schools and looking for radical messages in these institutions.

There's no doubt that someone is recruiting heavily and whipping these people into a frenzy.

What do you think their end-game is?

A full out war with muslims against non-muslims? That only ends one way...

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'm not sure if it was Richard Dawkins or someone else I heard, but he was saying (satirizing) that for a guy who build this complex planet in six days, formulating fire, wind, water, earth, air, mountains, plains, volcanoes, etc. and building this perfect world for life . . . Why is he apparently so obsessed about things humans do now, like playing with their ######s or which direction you face when you pray? Does that sound like a competent, all-knowing entity that runs the show and loves everyone equally? Seems pretty petty to worry about stuff like that, given the size of the solar system and beyond.

Religion is a human manifestation and something to kill time with between birth and death.

A thousand times this.

If gods exist, they're all narcissistic masochists that enjoy seeing people suffer on a near daily-basis.

Personally, the sun should be the one we worship. Giver of life, always there, we can see it, and it makes the world go round (literally). It doesn't judge, and it treats everybody the same.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Muta

A thousand times this.

If gods exist, they're all narcissistic masochists that enjoy seeing people suffer on a near daily-basis.

Personally, the sun should be the one we worship. Giver of life, always there, we can see it, and it makes the world go round (literally). It doesn't judge, and it treats everybody the same.

said no ginger ever...............

[terminator]

Originally Posted by polak

Might be. I really don't know how I'd react. I don't think you know how you would react either if Islamic terrorists attacked your friends and loved ones and you knew specifically what Mosque they were from. Maybe you do and you don't want to share it on a public forum.

I don't think I'd have it in me to hurt innocent people regardless of how angry I got but I'm sure I wouldn't be okay with just "letting it go". That's the only liberal reaction you could have to such an attack. Increasing security doesn't reduce extremism just gives it obstacles.

How would you discriminate a muslim from a non-muslim in this attacks?

How about non-muslims that fit your physical profile of one getting attacked? Would you let that go?

Would the attackers demand identification and proof of religion?

Jesus, move back to Poland. Sent your posts to CPS.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'm not sure if it was Richard Dawkins or someone else I heard, but he was saying (satirizing) that for a guy who build this complex planet in six days, formulating fire, wind, water, earth, air, mountains, plains, volcanoes, etc. and building this perfect world for life . . . Why is he apparently so obsessed about things humans do now, like playing with their ######s or which direction you face when you pray? Does that sound like a competent, all-knowing entity that runs the show and loves everyone equally? Seems pretty petty to worry about stuff like that, given the size of the solar system and beyond.

Religion is a human manifestation and something to kill time with between birth and death.

My rationale is simple. If there is a god, either he sees all of the unjust suffering in the world (child starvation, illness, abuse, etc) but can't do anything about it, meaning he is not all powerful and doesn't deserve to be worshiped. Or he sees all of that suffering, has the power to stop it but doesn't, meaning he is uncaring and shouldn't be deserving of worship

There really is no reason to believe in god when you see the kind of world that so many innocent people are forced to live in