Does Sven have a future with the Flames?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I would argue Sven was very effective on the forecheck. He would create turnovers by pressuring defensemen and using his stick effectively. If you're talking about a cycle game then no, he didn't do well with that.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not many times. He didn't get his stick on the puck enough in the offensive zone. You are simply imagining things if you think Sven had a lot going in a cycle. He would go in, try to get the puck, but be on the wrong side of the defenceman, and the play would go the other way. I won't argue about Bollig, but IMO Setoguchi looked better than Sven, and had better jump to his play, when they played at the same time.

He also played with Bouma, Jooris and Byron a fair bit. Those guys don't have zero offensive talent.

Hahaha.

Setoguchi didn't look better than anyone. He was a play killer despite being force fed icetime and PP minutes. What games are you watching? I'm not sure you pay much attention, or maybe you just can't watch every game. Its obvious from reading your posts you cannot describe things involving Baertschi without putting an overly negative spin on them.

Have you paid any attention to what Sven has been doing since he got sent down?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Hahaha.

Setoguchi didn't look better than anyone. He was a play killer despite being force fed icetime and PP minutes. What games are you watching? I'm not sure you pay much attention, or maybe you just can't watch every game. Its obvious from reading your posts you cannot describe things involving Baertschi without putting an overly negative spin on them.

Have you paid any attention to what Sven has been doing since he got sent down?

Wow, "hahaha"? That's some expert analysis there, and really bolsters your argument. In fact many people thought Setoguchi was better than Sven when they played at the same time, when it was easy to compare them. He had more energy, hit more, and was more involved. That's not to say he played well. He just played better than Sven (and his stats for hits, blocks etc. bore this out).

I've paid attention to what Sven has done in Adirondack, which has nothing to do with my comment. He's done well in his 12 games. He scored on a nice breakaway last game. He also got a late goal after an empty netter.

If you actually read my posts instead of trying to be a Baertschi apologist you'd see I have not done anything except respond to other poster's comments. It seems to me some posters are making every excuse they can to justify why he hasn't made an impact like other prospects, instead of looking at his game when he was here.

[nik-]

Do you honestly believe what you said there? That Setoguchi was better than Sven?

Because, mock his "expert analysis" all you want, but that's really wrong.

[GioforPM]

I and many others who watched those games (go back and read the game threads) thought Setoguchi was up in the play more and had more energy. When they were on the same line. He hit more, blocked more and had more shots. He also played better defensive position. This was in the early days of Sven's call up, on the first big eastern road swing, if you recall.

I will say they got the puck out of their zone better than the later 4th line (until Stajan returned).

And the "analysis" deserved mocking. I respect any poster's opinion until they start that crap.

[Ashasx]

Believing that Baertschi played better than Setoguchi is a mindset that deserves to be mocked?

This is why arguments erupt so easily on this board.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Believing that Baertschi played better than Setoguchi is a mindset that deserves to be mocked?

This is why arguments erupt so easily on this board.

No, dismissing a post with "hahaha" is an analysis which deserves to be mocked. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I and many others who watched those games (go back and read the game threads) thought Setoguchi was up in the play more and had more energy. When they were on the same line. He hit more, blocked more and had more shots. He also played better defensive position. This was in the early days of Sven's call up, on the first big eastern road swing, if you recall.

I will say they got the puck out of their zone better than the later 4th line (until Stajan returned).

And the "analysis" deserved mocking. I respect any poster's opinion until they start that crap.

You're doubling down on being wrong and lashing out at people while doing it. Setoguchi did nothing while he was on the big club. Nothing. Stop mocking people's analysis when yours is obviously so poor.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I and many others who watched those games (go back and read the game threads) thought Setoguchi was up in the play more and had more energy. When they were on the same line. He hit more, blocked more and had more shots. He also played better defensive position. This was in the early days of Sven's call up, on the first big eastern road swing, if you recall.

Setoguchi barely played better than the Scotiabank Skater. You can't just throw out a claim like "many others" thought he was better than Sven. Back it up. Who did?

[GioforPM]

Jeebus, if you really want me to dredge up the game threads and quote them, I will, but it will take some time. Or you could assume I'm not lying and that there were such posts.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

You're doubling down on being wrong and lashing out at people while doing it. Setoguchi did nothing while he was on the big club. Nothing. Stop mocking people's analysis when yours is obviously so poor.

I am only lashing out at disrespectful and dismissive replies. Setoguchi got no points - that is true. It is also true that when they were on a line together the game threads had posters (not me) who felt that Sven was behind even Setoguchi in his play. That's not a compliment to Setoguchi.

I feel that Sven's play before his demotion was better than Setoguchi, which is why the latter was benched. But by then they weren't playing together any more. Sven was with Byron and either Bouma or Jooris.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I and many others who watched those games (go back and read the game threads) thought Setoguchi was up in the play more and had more energy. When they were on the same line. He hit more, blocked more and had more shots. He also played better defensive position. This was in the early days of Sven's call up, on the first big eastern road swing, if you recall.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I am only lashing out at disrespectful and dismissive replies. Setoguchi got no points - that is true. It is also true that when they were on a line together the game threads had posters (not me) who felt that Sven was behind even Setoguchi in his play. That's not a compliment to Setoguchi.

I feel that Sven's play before his demotion was better than Setoguchi, which is why the latter was benched. But by then they weren't playing together any more. Sven was with Byron and either Bouma or Jooris.

Ok, pick a direction.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Bob McKenzie mentioned last season that coaches in the NHL right now are better than they have ever been. But their biggest flaw is that they pick favorites and condemn others. We even heard this from Horak and Cervenka after they moved on from the Flames.

Even the best coaches do this. Maybe it's the way the player carries himself, or perhaps their is a communication barrier. Either way, I'm not looking to blame anyone.

Those two guys couldn't cut it in the NHL and that is why they didn't get the minutes

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I and many others who watched those games (go back and read the game threads) thought Setoguchi was up in the play more and had more energy. When they were on the same line. He hit more, blocked more and had more shots. He also played better defensive position. This was in the early days of Sven's call up, on the first big eastern road swing, if you recall.

I will say they got the puck out of their zone better than the later 4th line (until Stajan returned).

And the "analysis" deserved mocking. I respect any poster's opinion until they start that crap.

I do not recall this being true

I am on the side that thinks Sven created a lot of plays and chances, but he was playing with the wrong linemates. Seto..... I can't believe this is the same guy that scored like 30 goals in the NHL.

[GioforPM]

Look at the Tampa Bay GT. There's a couple examples. By posters who don't like Setoguchi at all. I can't quote because you have to follow the conversation to get the whole thing.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Those two guys couldn't cut it in the NHL and that is why they didn't get the minutes

That doesn't mean their thoughts are invalid. Both players said the same thing at very similar times.

It's not the end all, but it's something.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I do not recall this being true

I am on the side that thinks Sven created a lot of plays and chances, but he was playing with the wrong linemates. Seto..... I can't believe this is the same guy that scored like 30 goals in the NHL.

I would write Seto off as benefitting from linemates in San Jose. Yet he scored points after leaving there (for a while anyway).

I certainly think their styles didn't mesh. Setoguchi scored best with someone like Thornton to pass from down low. Baertschi tended to pass from the boards. Plus, neither were with a playmaking centre.

Both have played better in Adirondack (Sven moreso IMO, though in fairness Seto got hurt after two weeks). Why is this? More ice time, lesser opponents, more freewheeling (defensive systems are not a big part of the AHL game) or maybe just determination to show management. Hopefully it's the first and last one.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Setoguchi is not a NHL player. No doubt about that. But that doesn't affect Baertschi in any way. Sven was not to battling with a 4th liner. Sven's performance needs to be weighed against the players he was battling against. Sven has to beat out one of Gaudreau, Glencross or Raymond. Has Sven done that? He hasn't scored a goal in the NHL in a calendar year. Dating back to the start of last season that is 2 goals in 40 games. That is also 14 points and a -8 during that same time. Which of Gaudreau, Glencross or Raymond do you take out of the lineup for that type of production?

The best thing for Baertschi right now is to play in the AHL, try and get scoring, and earn a late season call up to show he can score at the NHL level and have some chemistry with players on the team for next year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

Setoguchi is not a NHL player. No doubt about that. But that doesn't affect Baertschi in any way. Sven was not to battling with a 4th liner. Sven's performance needs to be weighed against the players he was battling against. Sven has to beat out one of Gaudreau, Glencross or Raymond. Has Sven done that? He hasn't scored a goal in the NHL in a calendar year. Dating back to the start of last season that is 2 goals in 40 games. That is also 14 points and a -8 during that same time. Which of Gaudreau, Glencross or Raymond do you take out of the lineup for that type of production?

The best thing for Baertschi right now is to play in the AHL, try and get scoring, and earn a late season call up to show he can score at the NHL level and have some chemistry with players on the team for next year.

Well, the short answer to the question is Raymond, assuming he continues to struggle. But I agree with your conclusion. Perhaps a third (sheltered) line of Sven Bennett and Poirier. I'm leery of the defensive aspect, so maybe Backlund as a vet to compliment instead of Bennett.

[BurningSteel]

I am rubber and you are glue. What you say
bounces off me and sticks to you.