NHL to test player tracking technology at All Star game

[sureLoss]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/n...all-star-game/

Officials from the league and NHL Players’ Association will be in Columbus for testing early next week, according to two sources, with the goal of employing the Sportvision system during the Jan. 24 skills competition and Jan. 25 all-star game at Nationwide Arena.

That would see computer chips placed in the sweaters of each player, plus the puck, to chart what is happening on the ice. As a result, everything from how fast and far a player skates to how hard he shoots and positions himself would be measured in real time.

A previous test was conducted in late October at SAP Center in San Jose, where junior players and former Sharks played a game while outfitted with Sportvision, and was considered a success.

The NHL is still hoping to introduce the chip technology league-wide next season, although it has yet to receive approval from the NHLPA to do so. It would replace the real-time stats that are currently compiled by hand at every game — an outdated system that produces inconsistencies from building to building.

Sportvision would essentially standardize how stats are measured across the league while also providing a voluminous amount of data that is not currently available.

[Wood]

About time

I've wondered for years why they don't just put a chip in the puck to know for a fact whether it crosses the goal line or not, let alone all the other awesome features that will come along with having all the players tracked as well

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Wood

About time

I've wondered for years why they don't just put a chip in the puck to know for a fact whether it crosses the goal line or not, let alone all the other awesome features that will come along with having all the players tracked as well

[darthma]

Originally Posted by Wood

About time

I've wondered for years why they don't just put a chip in the puck to know for a fact whether it crosses the goal line or not, let alone all the other awesome features that will come along with having all the players tracked as well

IIRC, they tried the chip-in-puck thing in the 90s but the players felt the puck 'wasn't the same'. I believe it had something to do with how it froze.

Ha! link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FoxTrax

Despite the puck having passed rigorous tests by the NHL to qualify as an official puck, matching the non-enhanced puck in every material way, some players[who?] claimed the enhanced puck had more rebound,[4] and were frustrated that the pricey pucks were not available for practice.[citation needed]

It was a horrible thing back then. However, tagging technology has come so far since the 90's so who knows... maybe it'll be better this time! As long as they don't bring back the blue glow... ugh...

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

That was for the FOX Streak.

You could have a sensor set off the entire goal celebration as it crossed a laser along the goal line. Goals would never be in doubt. I also wonder why this hasn't been done.

EDIT: Seen the above. Agreed the tech must be much better and smaller by now.

Will this new player tracking have an video game-type aura that pops up with the player's name and position? That would be kind of cool.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Wood

About time

I've wondered for years why they don't just put a chip in the puck to know for a fact whether it crosses the goal line or not, let alone all the other awesome features that will come along with having all the players tracked as well

It's a lot more complicated for hockey than it is with Soccer for instance. The puck isn't spherical so the chip system would have to be able to account for an infinite number of puck orientations and relate those orientations to the goal line.

Possible? Likely but I don't think it's trivial to begin with and you'd have to have 100% trust in the system.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by MattyC

That was for the FOX Streak.

You could have a sensor set off the eintire goal celebration as it crossed a laser along the goal line. Goals would never be in doubt. I also wonder why this hasn't been done.

It's not that simple.

For one thing, the puck is a cylinder, not a sphere, so they would need some way to determine the orientation of the puck. If the puck is flat, the centre of the puck needs to be 1.5 inches behind the goal line to be a goal, but if it's on its edge, it only needs to be half an inch behind the goal line to be a good goal.

The system would also need to track the precise movements of a puck travelling upwards of 100 mph.

A system like FoxTrax or this new system doesn't need to be that precise. It just needs to know that the puck went from point A to point B in a certain period of time and if it's off by a foot, it's still going to be good enough for the general information the teams and league would use it for.

An automated goal judging system would need to know if the puck went 2.99 inches past the goal line or 3.01 inches.

[wretched34]

Technology is pretty amazing, but I am really curious how a chip is going to track real time stats, and replace the manually compiled stats at every game....
when I think real-time stats, I think of hitting, shots taken (missed, saved, goal) shots blocked, TOI, faceoffs (taken, won, lost, %)
As far as hitting goes, the chip could technically relay information regarding a change in acceleration, speed, direction, and G-force, but how can it determine if the player hit another player, missed the player and slammed into the boards, Got hit by another player, lost an edge and fell to the ice, so many variables that a chip can't see like a set of eyes.
Same goes for almost every real time stat I can think of, a chip may be able to read the angular motion of a players body when taking a shot, and count how many times it occurs, but it ends there, and what if it's a quick wrister, where the shooter barely moves their shoulders, elbows or waist, and once the puck has left the stick, how does that players data get reflected if the puck sails over the glass on a deflection, or tipped in, again, I just don't see how the technology replaces a set of eyes.

[bubbsy]

and the advanced stats will increase 10x fold for this (good or bad)....

stats i'm sure we'll see soon thanks to this:
- average skating speed on ice
- average distance skated per shift/game
- time spent in each zone per game,
- forwards time spent in the "hard" area in front of the goalie and within the dots
- average shot distance from goal by player
- time of puck possession per player, per game
- goalies: shots saved/scored based on distance of shot, or area of ice
- goalies: avg distance goalie moves out past goaline when facing a shot

the opportunities are really endless.. having the data available is a huge first step, figuring out how to mine/correlate it will be the interesting part to see what sticks.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Technology is pretty amazing, but I am really curious how a chip is going to track real time stats, and replace the manually compiled stats at every game....
when I think real-time stats, I think of hitting, shots taken (missed, saved, goal) shots blocked, TOI, faceoffs (taken, won, lost, %)
As far as hitting goes, the chip could technically relay information regarding a change in acceleration, speed, direction, and G-force, but how can it determine if the player hit another player, missed the player and slammed into the boards, Got hit by another player, lost an edge and fell to the ice, so many variables that a chip can't see like a set of eyes.
Same goes for almost every real time stat I can think of, a chip may be able to read the angular motion of a players body when taking a shot, and count how many times it occurs, but it ends there, and what if it's a quick wrister, where the shooter barely moves their shoulders, elbows or waist, and once the puck has left the stick, how does that players data get reflected if the puck sails over the glass on a deflection, or tipped in, again, I just don't see how the technology replaces a set of eyes.

If you can track where every player is, who is in possession of the puck and the speeds they are going (which these sensors can do), it's possible to measure pretty much all of those stats.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by getbak

It's not that simple.

For one thing, the puck is a cylinder, not a sphere, so they would need some way to determine the orientation of the puck. If the puck is flat, the centre of the puck needs to be 1.5 inches behind the goal line to be a goal, but if it's on its edge, it only needs to be half an inch behind the goal line to be a good goal.

The system would also need to track the precise movements of a puck travelling upwards of 100 mph.

A system like FoxTrax or this new system doesn't need to be that precise. It just needs to know that the puck went from point A to point B in a certain period of time and if it's off by a foot, it's still going to be good enough for the general information the teams and league would use it for.

An automated goal judging system would need to know if the puck went 2.99 inches past the goal line or 3.01 inches.

This, plus the issue of whether the puck crossed is a pretty rare one, and it's even rarer to have it not settled pretty quickly on video. Lots of cost incurred to solve an almost non-existent problem (mind you, it would have been handy in spring 2004).

Then you'd have the problem of red lights going on (and maybe horns etc) whenever a puck crosses after a whistle.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

and the advanced stats will increase 10x fold for this (good or bad)....

stats i'm sure we'll see soon thanks to this:
- average skating speed on ice
- average distance skated per shift/game
- time spent in each zone per game,
- forwards time spent in the "hard" area in front of the goalie and within the dots
- average shot distance from goal by player
- time of puck possession per player, per game
- goalies: shots saved/scored based on distance of shot, or area of ice
- goalies: avg distance goalie moves out past goaline when facing a shot

the opportunities are really endless.. having the data available is a huge first step, figuring out how to mine/correlate it will be the interesting part to see what sticks.

This is arleady done in other sports, Rugby and soccer come to mind.


It provides a wealth of information to coaches, and can aid in player training/post game recovery.

[puffnstuff]

What is the system they use for tennis? That one seems, from a complete laymens view, to be similar to what is needed for hockey.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

What is the system they use for tennis? That one seems, from a complete laymens view, to be similar to what is needed for hockey.

Tennis uses cameras but that might not be practical when you have goaltenders, skaters and refs who might block line of sight.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

What is the system they use for tennis? That one seems, from a complete laymens view, to be similar to what is needed for hockey.

I reckon it will be something like this:

http://www.sporttechie.com/2014/05/1...hanging-rugby/

[DownhillGoat]

NM. Way behind the thread apparently.

[topfiverecords]

The Oilers could use this technology. Any time Hall's position is detected as "opposing blueline", and the position of the remaining 4 players is detected to be within 5 feet of each other, Mac-T gets a text message "Swarm Success!" and the goal light goes on automatically.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Will this new player tracking have an video game-type aura that pops up with the player's name and position? That would be kind of cool.

Dude. Even better.....the team in your fantasy league that player is on.

Whoever cracks that nut is going to be very wealthy.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by getbak

An automated goal judging system would need to know if the puck went 2.99 inches past the goal line or 3.01 inches.

No it wouldn't. It would just need to be more accurate than the current system.

The non-sphere problem is also not that hard to solve - triangulate 3 sensors in the puck that, and you know its orientation.

[troutman]

So the next Leafs coach can say, "look Phil, you did not cross your own blue line once in 25 minutes"?