I find it slightly worrying that all of the players Treliving brought in (Bollig, Raymond, Engelland and Diaz) are on the list of players deemed to be irrelevant to the future of the Flames. Obviously Hiller has been an excellent signing.
I'm glad he hasn't done anything rash to significantly alter the team he inherited, but other than the Hiller signing I fear he's missed the mark. Early days, I know...
Added a few names to the list. And if we are adding Poirier to the untouchables list despite him not playing an NHL game yet, then surely Klimchuk, Wotherspoon, Ortio, Gillies and a few other lesser prospects like Reinhart, Wolf, BVB, Agostino etc need entering into the discussion. Especially Klimchuk and Wotherspoon. Do we want these 2, or would we be happy to see them moved in packages?
The only reason I have Poirier on list A for me, is that IMO he is the top prospect besides Bennett.. I really see something special in him. Others might not see that and might not mind moving him. As far as Klimchuk goes, I like the guy but am not ready to say he is part of the core yet. Same with Wotherspoon.. So I guess those guys would be in the B list for me. Also somebody mentioned Ferland and I agree I think he's in the 1b list between untouchable and prefer to keep (dammage's Tier 1 list)
Plus there are some emerging, developing players that need to be in group B and should stay there until they either fall to C or become core players (possibly bouncing others out).
Arnold
Culkin
Ortio
Hickey
Gillies
are the five prospects beside Poirier, Bennett
I have Granlund, Klimchuk and Wotherspoon just short of that group.
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Plus there are some emerging, developing players that need to be in group B and should stay there until they either fall to C or become core players (possibly bouncing others out).
Arnold
Culkin
Ortio
Hickey
Gillies
are the five prospects beside Poirier, Bennett
I have Granlund, Klimchuk and Wotherspoon just short of that group.
Gilmour, John -- 2013 Draft
Harrison, Tim -- 2013 Draft
Rafikov, Rushan -- 2013 Draft
Roy, Eric -- 2013 Draft ^
DeBlouw, Matt -- 2012 Draft
Gillies, Jon -- 2012 Draft
Jankowski, Mark -- 2012 Draft
* - Bennett, Klimchuk, Kanzig, and Poirier will all have their ELCs slide one year (to expire in 2018) unless the player plays at least 10 games in the NHL this season.
^ - All of the CHL players drafted in 2014 must be extended a "bona fide" contract offer by June 1 or else they will re-enter the draft (this is a formality of the CBA, and it is very rare for a bona fide offer to not be extended). Eric Roy must be signed to a contract by June 1 or he will re-enter the draft. All other unsigned drafted players will remain Flames' property (barring a trade) for at least one more year because they are either European draft picks or they are NCAA players.
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Plus there are some emerging, developing players that need to be in group B and should stay there until they either fall to C or become core players (possibly bouncing others out).
Arnold
Culkin
Ortio
Hickey
Gillies
are the five prospects beside Poirier, Bennett
I have Granlund, Klimchuk and Wotherspoon just short of that group.
I find it slightly worrying that all of the players Treliving brought in (Bollig, Raymond, Engelland and Diaz) are on the list of players deemed to be irrelevant to the future of the Flames. Obviously Hiller has been an excellent signing.
I'm glad he hasn't done anything rash to significantly alter the team he inherited, but other than the Hiller signing I fear he's missed the mark. Early days, I know...
I don't. I view them more as place holders than saviors. Finding a core player among them was never a likely scenario.
Treliving's ability as GM is still largely an unknown IMO.
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I guess the 'untouchability' of a player depends on the expectations of the team and that player within it.
For instance, the Flames may make the playoffs this year, they may also miss. But then what does that do to their expectations next year? I imagine that the expectations would increase and they'd expect to make the playoffs.
So when it comes to the personnel you cant go 'Oilers.' They traded a guy that could help them now for something that may never help them or wont help them for a few years yet.
The Flames dont want to do that, because they'll need a player contributing immediately as opposed to future potential because of where the team is and the expectations of the team and where they want to be.
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I'm glad he hasn't done anything rash to significantly alter the team he inherited, but other than the Hiller signing I fear he's missed the mark. Early days, I know...
I wonder how many times Treliving has to say that he didn't have a good read on the players in our organization before people consider that the players he brought in were stop gaps to help him assess the players in the organization. All of the players you mentioned are pros in minor roles who have been in and out of the lineup. Diaz was a tryout, for goodness sake. These pros have filled roles unsuited to developing players while Treliving gets a handle on what we have.
As Treliving has become more familiar with the players we do have, we've seen Setoguchi get waived and sent down, with younger players counted on to play bigger more important roles by the GM and coach.
Last edited by Finger Cookin; 01-03-2015 at 04:26 PM.
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Treliving please look for possible individual trades involving
Glencross
Raymond
Diaz
Stajan
Smid
Colborne
Bollig.
Do not get lured into any multiple player deals of any sort.
They never work out in the Flames favor.
Plus there are some emerging, developing players that need to be in group B and should stay there until they either fall to C or become core players (possibly bouncing others out).
Arnold
Culkin
Ortio
Hickey
Gillies
are the five prospects beside Poirier, Bennett
I have Granlund, Klimchuk and Wotherspoon just short of that group.
I don't think any of those five players deserve to be promoted to group B. The list seems like as much a random grab bag of names as anything else.
Treliving please look for possible individual trades involving
Glencross
Raymond
Diaz
Stajan
Smid
Colborne
Bollig.
Do not get lured into any multiple player deals of any sort.
They never work out in the Flames favor.
Best case scenario is a few 3rds- 5th. Really tho that's ok. I for one would like to hold on to Colborne for at least 1 more year. He could be a great 3rd line player.
Glencross should be moved regardless of the teams position at the deadline. Hopefully he would agree to go to a contender. Could get a 2nd with a small add for him.
Last edited by Moneyhands23; 01-03-2015 at 04:37 PM.
The one name I would think is expendable is Hudler.
He has 1 year left on his deal and lots of teams could use him. You wouldn't do it this year but in the off season if he could be moved for a young defensemen who is almost ready i think you do it. Especially if Pourier makes some noise when he is called up and you need to make room for him.
Hudler will be 31 and looking for a 5 year deal and a raise. I don't think a 5yr 20mil deal gets it done and I know I wouldn't want to go any higher that long.
I think this year and next year we are a bubble playoff team so everything should be focused on 2 to 5 years from now.
I think at the deadline though you can't sell players if we are within 4 pts of a playoff spot at even games played as you need to reward the team for playing with the culture they have and let them shape their own destiny. This means glencross and Smid likely walk away at the end of the year.
The one name I would think is expendable is Hudler.
He has 1 year left on his deal and lots of teams could use him. You wouldn't do it this year but in the off season if he could be moved for a young defensemen who is almost ready i think you do it. Especially if Pourier makes some noise when he is called up and you need to make room for him.
Hudler will be 31 and looking for a 5 year deal and a raise. I don't think a 5yr 20mil deal gets it done and I know I wouldn't want to go any higher that long.
One man's expendable is another man's keeper
I'm an outsider, but it sure seems to me that Hudler's value isn't limited to his ice time.
I like the definition "core pieces", "support pieces", and "expendable"
Makes it less about who you can and can't trade and more about who you see the team being built around.
They need to decide what goalie is in that core group, and whether or not Poirier belongs in that group. I think its safe to assume Bennett and don't have a problem with that.
I like Russell, but I don't think the core should have more than 2 dmen.
Ideally you have two centers, 2 dmen, 2 wingers and a goaltender in a core I'd suggest.
I didn't do goalies because you never know how they will develop, but I guess you could say that about the rest too. I mean at this point of time, can we say Ortio/Gillies will be the core goalie of the future. I want to say yes but really I can't say
1. His production would be hard to match/beat thru trade.
2. What he does with mentoring the Flames young players is extrodinary. Teams such as the "No Goods" for example would need this type of personality in the room.
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Last edited by CaptainCraig; 01-03-2015 at 05:01 PM.
Reason: Adding
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I like the definition "core pieces", "support pieces", and "expendable"
Makes it less about who you can and can't trade and more about who you see the team being built around.
They need to decide what goalie is in that core group, and whether or not Poirier belongs in that group. I think its safe to assume Bennett and don't have a problem with that.
I like Russell, but I don't think the core should have more than 2 dmen.
Ideally you have two centers, 2 dmen, 2 wingers and a goaltender in a core I'd suggest.
I like your definitions.
My core pieces for now:
Sean Monahan
TJ Brodie
Mark Giordano
Mikael Backlund (he could drop down to support piece)
Johnny Gaudreau
Sam Bennett
Emile Poirier
Support pieces:
Lance Bouma
Joe Colborne
Kris Russell
Karri Ramo
Hiller?
Sven Baertschi
Tyler Wotherspoon
Jiri Hudler
Prospects I would much much much prefer to hold onto for now, who may become full-time support pieces (if the goalies, perhaps a core goalie):
Jon Gillies
Joni Ortio
Hunter Smith
Austin Carroll
Morgan Klimchuk
Michael Ferland
Markus Granlund
Josh Jooris
Brandon Hickey
Ryan Culkin
Expendable in the near future as the kids come along:
Brandon Bollig
Paul Byron
Curtis Glencross
David Jones
Mason Raymond
Matt Stajan
Deryk Engelland
Ladislav Smid
Dennis Wideman
Everyone else.
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