[Trade] Oilers trade Perron to Pittsburgh for 2015 1st, Klinkhammer

[PaperBagger'14]

The pick is fine and they could very easily have a great player with that pick. Unfortunately a great player may get developed into the next 600 goal 1300 point player.

[wired]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

i'd have taken that for Glencross.

I ran out of thanks!!!

[Red John]

It's interesting.

When you first look at the trade in your mind it seems like a fair return for Perron. An inconsistent top-6 winger on a decent contract fetches a plug and a late 1st in a deep draft. Seems reasonable.

Then you look at the analogy of trading your paycheck for a coin flip in getting it back in 3 years.

Makes you wonder if draft picks are overvalued in general around the league. Sure - you need them. We saw first hand what happened under Sutter when you hand them out like candy. They are absolutely building blocks. And yet there seems to be a market inefficiency when trading a guy for a 50/50 chance of recouping him in 3 years is considered fair value.

Strange.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by Red John

It's interesting.

When you first look at the trade in your mind it seems like a fair return for Perron. An inconsistent top-6 winger on a decent contract fetches a plug and a late 1st in a deep draft. Seems reasonable.

Then you look at the analogy of trading your paycheck for a coin flip in getting it back in 3 years.

Makes you wonder if draft picks are overvalued in general around the league. Sure - you need them. We saw first hand what happened under Sutter when you hand them out like candy. They are absolutely building blocks. And yet there seems to be a market inefficiency when trading a guy for a 50/50 chance of recouping him in 3 years is considered fair value.

Strange.

Thats absolutely true. Draft picks are great building blocks and definately a must - i do believe though that good undrafted free agent scouting is key as well - look at Jooris and Gio for two close to home examples. Add in some vets, high draft picks, 4-6 round picks who make the team, UFA's, you got yourself a winner. Look at when the hawks won the cup with Niemi at the helm as an example off the top of my head. Some players ffr whatever reason really do take a while to mature. I think hard work training and practicing for these guys is what makes some of them superstars

[Soliak]

Originally Posted by Red John

It's interesting.

When you first look at the trade in your mind it seems like a fair return for Perron. An inconsistent top-6 winger on a decent contract fetches a plug and a late 1st in a deep draft. Seems reasonable.

Then you look at the analogy of trading your paycheck for a coin flip in getting it back in 3 years.

Makes you wonder if draft picks are overvalued in general around the league. Sure - you need them. We saw first hand what happened under Sutter when you hand them out like candy. They are absolutely building blocks. And yet there seems to be a market inefficiency when trading a guy for a 50/50 chance of recouping him in 3 years is considered fair value.

Strange.

I think that is exactly what makes it a bad trade. The Oilers are trying to compete now and trading for a coin flip in 3 years isn't exactly good management. It's hard to see this as anything but a tank job for McEichel.

I was wrong when I said they could 'easily' get a good player on my post a page ago. It's never easy for any player to make the NHL. What I meant was that I do think scouts picking in the ~20 ish range in a deep draft must believe their selected players have a good chance of having an impact in the NHL and wouldn't just be 'very lucky' to make a 2nd/3rd line role.

It sucks the Oilers are going to get McEichel

[Resolute 14]

Context matters. Klimchuck and Poirier were late first round picks, and when we acquired the picks themselves, we had no idea what we were getting. But we were also at the outset of our rebuild, so buying the lottery tickets for three years down the road made sense.

But a big problem the Oilers face is that this year will be the ninth without playoffs, and next year the tenth. How close is that team getting to suffering a lost generation of fans? They need to win, and to win, they need players who can play today. Shuffling Perron out for a pick who might crack the NHL in 2017, might become a regular by 2018 and, with luck, become what Perron is now in 2020 is not what the Oilers need. It was, however, probably still the best they could do.

Edmonton is going to spin its wheels as long as MacTavish relies on half measures. He has very few assets of value, and until he gets the green light from the owner's son to move a couple of them, Shelbyville is going to remain stapled to the bottom of the standings.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Is anyone disputing that? The point is what is the probability of actually doing it?

Ya New Era was disputing it that's why this conversation started.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Husky

And I'm saying those players are not the same quality as perron period.

Well your debating with yourself because I never compared any players.

[Hackey]

Dealing Perron now doesn't really make sense if the Oilers are looking to compete next year. (Even though theyll likely be in a very similar situation again) This year is a write off. Perron almost certainly wouldnt be back after his contract expired. For all we know he requested a trade though and this was the best value they could get for him.

[browna]

Dealing Perron was getting the guy off the team who had bad mouthed it a month ago. And it netted a good tag line in return, that being a 1st round pick. That's the best return they could get after a month of shopping and the Pens needed help due to the Mumps.

Again, I don't doubt that the Oilers have entertained the notion to trade anyone. Problem continually is that the return they want for Yakupov or Nugent Hopkins or whoever, is not sufficient to save face for the Oilers picking them so high, and/or the players coming back in the trade will not waive NMC clauses to play under Lowe.

[FlameZilla]

So in the end the Oilers traded:

Magnus Paajarvi & a 2014 2nd round pick (#33, Ivan Barbashev)

For

Klinkhammer (UFA) & a 2015 1st round pick, likely a late-round selection.


It's a lateral move at best, and really only because Paajarvi is waiver-wire fodder these days. Edit: DERP

Barbashev should turn into a player, especially as he won't be rushed in the Blues' system. He's having a great season in Moncton: 29GP 22G 27A 49PTS 39PIM +8.


All-in-all it's a round-about way of trading an early 2nd rounder for a late 1st rounder and, in a way, if they don't draft and develop a player at least as good as Barbashev it's going to be a outright embarrassment for them.

Par for the course.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Context matters. Klimchuck and Poirier were late first round picks, and when we acquired the picks themselves, we had no idea what we were getting. But we were also at the outset of our rebuild, so buying the lottery tickets for three years down the road made sense.

Exactly. Trading away a 26-year-old for a lottery ticket when you're supposed to be in the final stages of a rebuild is idiotic. It's pretty much an admission that the Oilers are starting all over again, and that if anyone criticizes the organization - even if he's one of the few players who has shown some spirit - he'll be shown the door.

[flamesfan6]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

So in the end the Oilers traded:

Magnus Paajarvi & a 2014 2nd round pick (#33, Ivan Barbashev)

For

Klinkhammer (UFA) & a 2015 1st round pick, likely a late-round selection.


It's a lateral move at best, and really only because Paajarvi is waiver-wire fodder these days. Klinkhammer is a 6/7 defenceman on most teams, but on the Oilers he's probably an upgrade on what they have (which isn't saying much).

Barbashev should turn into a player, especially as he won't be rushed in the Blues' system. He's having a great season in Moncton: 29GP 22G 27A 49PTS 39PIM +8.


All-in-all it's a round-about way of trading an early 2nd rounder for a late 1st rounder and, in a way, if they don't draft and develop a player at least as good as Barbashev it's going to be a outright embarrassment for them.

Par for the course.

not saying I disagree it's a lateral move, but Klinkhammer is a forward not a defenceman

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Soliak

I think that is exactly what makes it a bad trade. The Oilers are trying to compete now and trading for a coin flip in 3 years isn't exactly good management. It's hard to see this as anything but a tank job for McEichel.

I was wrong when I said they could 'easily' get a good player on my post a page ago. It's never easy for any player to make the NHL. What I meant was that I do think scouts picking in the ~20 ish range in a deep draft must believe their selected players have a good chance of having an impact in the NHL and wouldn't just be 'very lucky' to make a 2nd/3rd line role.

It sucks the Oilers are going to get McEichel

I would suggest that the bolded may have been true 3 months ago, but that ship sailed about 3 weeks into November. As such, McTavish,once again, had to somewhat start over. I have no doubt that his mini-sojourn behind the bench recently was to gauge what he had "in the room" as much as it was to see how they responded on the ice. Not a bad strategy either IMO.

Now he is merely riding out the season, acquiring assets (the 1st rd pick)making moves to get the type of guys he thinks are missing from the club (Klinkhamer/Fraser/Roy) and will probably make a major move around the draft when all 29 other teams have cap flexibility many dont have right now. No question one of Eberle/Hall/Yakupov are moved at that time if the tea leaves are accurate at all.

As part of that strategy they will likely end up with 1 or 2 overall, not because they are tanking per se, but because the club he assembled is horribly flawed and entirely unable to collect wins at any sort of pace that would see them move out of the cellar.

It's going to be fascinating watching this team after the season IMO because there are many ways to screw up what has started this year...well 7 years ago actually.....and that is yet another rebuild....because they really are NO GOOD.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Exactly. Trading away a 26-year-old for a lottery ticket when you're supposed to be in the final stages of a rebuild is idiotic. It's pretty much an admission that the Oilers are starting all over again, and that if anyone criticizes the organization - even if he's one of the few players who has shown some spirit - he'll be shown the door.

But isn't that the point CF? They are supposed to be in the final stages of a rebuild, but clearly, they aren't even close to final stages. Their results this year prove that, this rebuild is still on the ground floor. I agree with you making this move is an admission they are starting over again / or still at the starting line, but isn't that the right thing to do? Accept your reality?

This Flames organization spun their wheels for years not accepting their reality, MacT would be simply compounding the deep laundry list of mistakes of the past if he did the same. His clubs not even close, they are still rebuilding, he needs to make rebuild moves, especially with a player like Perron that wants out. Fair for us to mock them for still being in a rebuild when they shouldn't be, but MacT would be making a far bigger mistake if he was trying to to make moves that didn't appropriately reflect the current spot in the development curve where his team is, which is the basement.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by flamesfan6

not saying I disagree it's a lateral move, but Klinkhammer is a forward not a defenceman

He puts up the numbers of a 7th defenceman though...

[Stay Golden]

Hope McDavid realizes what a disfunctional organization they are and tells the Greasers he will refuse to report.
That is what they deserve for intentionally tanking their roster.

[CaptainCrunch]

The Oilers are currently at 8 years without the playoffs, and its likely to hit 9. The record is 10 years.

With the way the Oilers are being run and with them being addicted to draft picks they could easily beat the modern record of 10 years.

Even if they draft one of the two uber stars they're going to have to change the culture in that dressing room and Eberle and Yakupov while the easy choices to move will not garner what the Oilers hope they'll garner. The two key chips are RNH and Hall.

I was thinking last night that MacTavish had talked about the forensic audit bs and how he wouldn't be making deals until that was complete.

While either the audit never happened and they strung a line to make Oiler fans believe something was happening, or its over, and Katz decided to ride his current horses, or Nicholson is just a figure head who's going to be taking the blame for this catastrophe or a season.

[CaptainCrunch]

Oh and after this season and seeing the Oilers boo'd off of the ice and jersey's tossed. And possibly seeing the current management group surviving through to next year. They'll end up massively overpaying for underwhelming free agents, or being told to get stuffed by the good ones.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

But isn't that the point CF? They are supposed to be in the final stages of a rebuild, but clearly, they aren't even close to final stages. Their results this year prove that, this rebuild is still on the ground floor. I agree with you making this move is an admission they are starting over again / or still at the starting line, but isn't that the right thing to do? Accept your reality?

This Flames organization spun their wheels for years not accepting their reality, MacT would be simply compounding the deep laundry list of mistakes of the past if he did the same. His clubs not even close, they are still rebuilding, he needs to make rebuild moves, especially with a player like Perron that wants out. Fair for us to mock them for still being in a rebuild when they shouldn't be, but MacT would be making a far bigger mistake if he was trying to to make moves that didn't appropriately reflect the current spot in the development curve where his team is, which is the basement.

I just don't see how Perron, as a hockey player, couldn't be part of the solution even for a young, rebuilding team. He's only 26.