[Rumour] Dreger: Hall is the face of the Oiler's culture problem. I expect him to be shopped

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MattyC

But Edmonton has to do something. They can't just sit with this terrible team forever...can they?

One would think not... but their history dictates otherwise.

I expect, instead, they are banking on McDavid. And selling the dream all over again.

It's disgraceful.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

Just like how Seguin was a locker room issue? This is media driven remember. And maybe he does have an attitude problem, which is why they NEED to get a coach to whip the bad habits out of that group.

But trading your most valuable piece for under his value is? No. I agree something has to change, management needs a clean house, just like how Calgary swept house and the culture changed dramatically, this team is night and day compared to a few years ago, and the same needs to happen in Edmonton, but who knows if that'll happen.
And lets not compare Iginla to Hall, two different situations, and to say Iginla was a culture issue is completely wrong.

First I heard he was a locker room issue. I just heard that he was a little immature and spending too much time having a good time off the ice. That was a veteran locker room and there's not many issues a 21 year old is going to cause as it's not like the team was handing him free ice time. The Bruins messed up because they expected a 21 year old to have the maturity of a veteran player which was a bad miscalculation on their part as well they miscalculated on his potential. I've seen pictures of Hall, Ebs, RHN at Edmonton night clubs. Young men being young men isn't the issue with Hall hell we have all seen the Flames at Cowboys pictures over the years. Not buying into the team concept is the issue with Hall.

Iginla was part of the Flames culture issue. I don't even think that's debateable now.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Will guys like Eberle and Yakupov thrive on other teams? I would argue that Yakupov right now wouldn't be playing on the roster of most NHL teams as he should be in the AHL and guys like himself and Eberle aren't going to get ice time just because of who they are with good organizations. Will Eberle be better with his ice time reduced or asked to play a team game? Jury is out on all these guys as personally I think Hall would do well on another team but I really don't think Yakupov and Eberle are nearly as good as the hype.

I think if they're put in the right situation they can be a solid pieces (Similar to Gaborik in LA) But yes, Eberle/Yakupov aren't nearly as good as Hall/worth the hype they get.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

First I heard he was a locker room issue. I just heard that he was a little immature and spending too much time having a good time off the ice. That was a veteran locker room and there's not many issues a 21 year old is going to cause as it's not like the team was handing him free ice time. The Bruins messed up because they expected a 21 year old to have the maturity of a veteran player which was a bad miscalculation on their part as well they miscalculated on his potential. I've seen pictures of Hall, Ebs, RHN at Edmonton night clubs. Young men being young men isn't the issue with Hall. Not buying into the team concept is the issue with Hall.

Iginla was part of the Flames culture issue. I don't even think that's debateable now.

And Hall's still only 23, players mature at different ages, and considering how Hall has been handed everything so far in his NHL career his attitude isn't surprising.
Not buying into the system is both Hall and managements fault .

In a different way than Hall though, Iginla was more so a problem I guess in a way where he was almost valued more then the team in a sense, he was never actually a locker room cancer or anything. Everywhere he's been since Calgary there's been nothing but positive things said.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

I think if they're put in the right situation they can be a solid pieces (Similar to Gaborik in LA) But yes, Eberle/Yakupov aren't nearly as good as Hall/worth the hype they get.

Yakupov was offered up to the Flyers earlier in the season and the offer was declined. His value is likely very low right now. Being a first round pick doesn't count for much once pro scouts have a book on a player that isn't exactly flattering.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

And Hall's still only 23, players mature at different ages, and considering how Hall has been handed everything so far in his NHL career his attitude isn't surprising.
Not buying into the system is both Hall and managements fault .

In a different way than Hall though, Iginla was more so a problem I guess in a way where he was almost valued more then the team in a sense, he was never actually a locker room cancer or anything. Everywhere he's been since Calgary there's been nothing but positive things said.

Refer to Enoch Root's post for why the Oilers are in a bit of a pickle here.

[JiriHrdina]

Yeah at this point how much value does Yakupov have compared to say the Filatov situation from a few years back?
Filatov had even more issues - the guy was soft as butter for one, and hadn't produced at all. He only got a 3rd.
Yak gets you more but how much more?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Yeah at this point how much value does Yakupov have compared to say the Filatov situation from a few years back?
Filatov had even more issues - the guy was soft as butter for one, and hadn't produced at all. He only got a 3rd.
Yak gets you more but how much more?

A 2nd?

[northcrunk]

Hall is 23, not 18. Time to grow up bud.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think you are missing the reason that this discussion is even happening: the Oilers have come to realize that Hall may be part of the problem instead of the solution.

Not trading him retains the status quo of the dressing room, which is a big steaming coil of ugliness at the moment.

If you don't change anything, adding McEichel to that mess simply means that you now have a big stinking mess with one more talented young player added to it.

The Oilers have to decide whether or not they want to address their problems. If they do - and by extension decide they need to trade Hall - they will have to accept WAY less than you think he is worth (his full potential worth in the best case scenario and the current market value for him are two completely different things).

That is the Oiler conundrum: trade him at less than full market, or don't and maintain the status quo.

That is what you call being stuck between a rock and a hard place. And the Oilers have brought this on themselves. Not only that, but trying to wait it out not only doesn't solve their problems, but likely makes them worse.

That is why the sharks are circling: because the Oilers are hooped.

Okay, fair play. But that's if the bolded is true, from all reports I've heard this is purely media driven and not by Edmonton Management at all.

If it is, then I'd be inclined to agree, but I think Edmontons problems stem much deeper then just Hall. (Lowe)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

Okay, fair play. But that's if the bolded is true, from all reports I've heard this is purely media driven and not by Edmonton Management at all.

If it is, then I'd be inclined to agree, but I think Edmontons problems stem much deeper then just Hall. (Lowe)

I agree 100%. IMO, Lowe is the primary problem and as far as I am concerned, that isn't even debatable.

However, the Oiler situation has gotten to the point where there are multiple problems and no single fix.

NOTHING improves until management is completely nuked. But even after that finally happens, I still believe that things are so rotten now that you have to blow it up and do another rebuild.

I just don't see how they can ever successfully build around that current core at this point. If I'm in charge, I ship out all the young guys (except maybe RNH) and start over.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

A 2nd?

Or late 1st, or something to fill an immediate need. A late 20s second pairing dman or something like that.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I agree 100%. IMO, Lowe is the primary problem and as far as I am concerned, that isn't even debatable.

However, the Oiler situation has gotten to the point where there are multiple problems and no single fix.

NOTHING improves until management is completely nuked. But even after that finally happens, I still believe that things are so rotten now that you have to blow it up and do another rebuild.

I just don't see how they can ever successfully build around that current core at this point. If I'm in charge, I ship out all the young guys (except maybe RNH) and start over.

I agree, though I still think a lot of teams would be willing to give up some very good pieces to get Hall, he's fixable. But outside of RNH and Hall(I realize I'm mostly alone on this) yes, blow it ALL up.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Yeah at this point how much value does Yakupov have compared to say the Filatov situation from a few years back?
Filatov had even more issues - the guy was soft as butter for one, and hadn't produced at all. He only got a 3rd.
Yak gets you more but how much more?

Really? Why? Its an apt comparison, I guess the only difference is that Yakupov hasnt sucked for quite as long but while hes on the Oilers thats literally only a matter of time.

[Enoch Root]

Oops, meant to put this in here:

How about Yakupov for Larsson?

Both guys are long on potential but haven't lived up to it yet. Both are top draft picks, and both could use a fresh start.

And both teams could use what the other guys brings.

[JohnnySkittles]

I could see that, although I think Larsson would just bust. Nobody will develop properly in Edmonton until the culture/management is changed

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Locke

Really? Why? Its an apt comparison, I guess the only difference is that Yakupov hasnt sucked for quite as long but while hes on the Oilers thats literally only a matter of time.

Yakupov has shown some ability to play at the NHL level. Filatov never did that. And Filatov had a terrible attitude. I forget the quote but he told a coach he doesn't score rebound goals.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Yakupov has shown some ability to play at the NHL level. Filatov never did that. And Filatov had a terrible attitude. I forget the quote but he told a coach he doesn't score rebound goals.

Yakupov showed that for one month. Let's not make him out to be a NHL player because he has not shown much outside of that magical month.

[powderjunkie]

I think something centred around Ryan O'Reilly could make sense...they'll have to overpay him in a couple years, but he was keen enough to come to YYC a couple years ago...ROR+Barrie for Hall and a prospect that doesn't have total Oiler stink yet?


I've felt for a few years that Sharks needed to do something bold. Logan Couture + 2nd + crappy prospect for Hall. He could kill it like Cheechoo with Thornton for a couple years, then they could flip him at his ceiling before Joe falls apart. Not sure he's the right fix for what seems to be a locker room with strange leadership.

Has J Staal's NTC kicked in yet? All those guys also make $6M.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Yakupov has shown some ability to play at the NHL level. Filatov never did that. And Filatov had a terrible attitude. I forget the quote but he told a coach he doesn't score rebound goals.

Alright, I dont really want to disagree, but I think you're either splitting hairs or reading a bit much into minutiae beacuse I gaurantee people said the same thing about Filatov at the time and then bang - 3rd round pick.