French Immersion School Opinions

[darklord700]

Thanks for your replies. Juding from my elder son's elementary school experience, there doesn't seem to be too much academic learning nowadays at school. So this time I thought my little one could benefit at least from learning one more language. I am leaning towards getting my little one to French immersion now and probably sign him up for Kumo later as remedy to his English skills. If that doesn't work out, we can always go back to English immersion school later.

Seems like really academic learning doesn't start until Jr High or even Senior High nowadays.

[northcrunk]

I've found most kids who do early immersion end up having a hard time with English because they missed the basics in Kindergarten (How to read, spell, write and sound letters). I chose not to put my daughter in as we don't speak french much at home and we live in Alberta. Unless you want them to be civil servants (or french lit majors) I don't see the need for early immersion. Besides they don't even speak proper french in this country to begin with.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by nik-

If I had a child and wanted them to learn another language (which I will want them to when I have one) it wouldn't be French. Have them learn Spanish or Mandarin.

Just curious about your reasons for those over French. I think the thought process is relevant to why people may consider immersion. Is it based on an economic argument or a language / culture argument?

Insofar as breadth, French is spoken in basically as many countries as Spanish + Portuguese + Italian. Mandarin is basically spoken in 1 country.

The limited number of countries speaking Mandarin (or Cantonese) undermines the population argument in my opinion. Given the time involved, it sure seems that using English to interface with Chinese counterparts would be ok. As an economic argument, you could make just as big a case for Arabic. Or use your English and working knowledge of Hindi to tackle much of India.


Also, with one of Spanish / Portuguese / Italian / French, the other 3 are downhill.

If your interest is to empower your children to travel and to garner a deeper appreciation of various cultures, the SPIF languages seem second to none. Unless, of course, you have a strong and focused interest in China and Chinese history that you would like your children to inherit.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Just curious about your reasons for those over French. I think the thought process is relevant to why people may consider immersion. Is it based on an economic argument or a language / culture argument?

Insofar as breadth, French is spoken in basically as many countries as Spanish + Portuguese + Italian. Mandarin is basically spoken in 1 country.

The limited number of countries speaking Mandarin (or Cantonese) undermines the population argument in my opinion. Given the time involved, it sure seems that using English to interface with Chinese counterparts would be ok. As an economic argument, you could make just as big a case for Arabic. Or use your English and working knowledge of Hindi to tackle much of India.


Also, with one of Spanish / Portuguese / Italian / French, the other 3 are downhill.

If your interest is to empower your children to travel and to garner a deeper appreciation of various cultures, the SPIF languages seem second to none. Unless, of course, you have a strong and focused interest in China and Chinese history that you would like your children to inherit.

Except you're counting countries, and not speakers. Spanish has half a billion speakers and their countries are growing population wise and economically. Even country wise, you have a bunch of old colonies of France who list French as an offical language. Mandarin is obvious. I'm of French background, I spoke it when I was little, but it's not a growth or as an "important" language globally compared to english, spanish and mandarin.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by nik-

Except you're counting countries, and not speakers. Spanish has half a billion speakers and their countries are growing population wise and economically. Even country wise, you have a bunch of old colonies of France who list French as an offical language. Mandarin is obvious. I'm of French background, I spoke it when I was little, but it's not a growth or as an "important" language globally compared to english, spanish and mandarin.

I guess the bolded part has me thinking: so what?

You're never going to have to speak with all 0.5 billion Mandarin speakers, for either touristic or business purposes.

That was why I was curious what the impetus for the language is? Economic enrichment, or cultural enrichment?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Thanks for your replies. Juding from my elder son's elementary school experience, there doesn't seem to be too much academic learning nowadays at school. So this time I thought my little one could benefit at least from learning one more language. I am leaning towards getting my little one to French immersion now and probably sign him up for Kumo later as remedy to his English skills. If that doesn't work out, we can always go back to English immersion school later.

Seems like really academic learning doesn't start until Jr High or even Senior High nowadays.

What do you mean by "academic learning"?

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by troutman

What do you mean by "academic learning"?

By that I meant classroom, hit the books, kind of learning.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by prarieboy

I don't have kids in French Imersion but I have heard that true immersion programs have resulted in students struggling to write university level english papers.

My kids are in a Spanish 50/50 program. Half the classes are in Spanish and half are in English. They don't speak a lot of spanish at homebut when someone speaks to them they know exactly what's being said and respond accordingly. It's pretty cool.

This. My GF went through French Immersion and did Spanish as a second language in high school.

Her university writing has suffered because of it and she fully blames the immersion. She gets confused about tenses and things like that. But her writing in Spanish in French is likely better than English, grammar wise.

[BigNumbers]

Sorry, but I really disagree with those saying " I know someone who did french early and they suffered". I did full French immersion from kindergarten and if you're at all intelligent , it's 100% benefits without any drawbacks. If you speak English at home, you should have no issues with your English writing. At ant rate, you have to take English classes in school the same as any anglo-kid.

Sorry, just find those who say their university-level writing was compromised are BS'ing, if they are native English speakers. There are like what, 3 tenses used in English writing? French has over 10 that you learn from a young age. English seems like a dumb***'s language after you go through french and it's verbiage and tenses.

The kids who joined us in grade 7 for late immersion were so far behind the curve that they never caught up, save for the really bright kids... Those kids should have been in immersion to begin with.

100% - every kid who is a native English speaker (eg: english speaking parents) should be put in 100% immersion from Kindergarten in my opinion - it helps brain development, language learning throughout life and is nothing but beneficial.

I am on my phone but thought that I'd post as I am reading some stuff I really disagree with, so I apologize if I come across combative! But since I am agreeing with Sliver, maybe I deserve to be punched?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by BigNumbers

Sorry, but I really disagree with those saying " I know someone who did french early and they suffered". I did full French immersion from kindergarten and if you're at all intelligent , it's 100% benefits without any drawbacks. If you speak English at home, you should have no issues with your English writing. At ant rate, you have to take English classes in school the same as any anglo-kid.

Sorry, just find those who say their university-level writing was compromised are BS'ing, if they are native English speakers. There are like what, 3 tenses used in English writing? French has over 10 that you learn from a young age. English seems like a dumb***'s language after you go through french and it's verbiage and tenses.

The kids who joined us in grade 7 for late immersion were so far behind the curve that they never caught up, save for the really bright kids... Those kids should have been in immersion to begin with.

100% - every kid who is a native English speaker (eg: english speaking parents) should be put in 100% immersion from Kindergarten in my opinion - it helps brain development, language learning throughout life and is nothing but beneficial.

I am on my phone but thought that I'd post as I am reading some stuff I really disagree with, so I apologize if I come across combative! But since I am agreeing with Sliver, maybe I deserve to be punched?

I mostly agree with you, but yeah, definitely.

[billybob123]

I grew up in Ottawa, french immersion from K-13 (we had grade 13 when I went to high school in the dark ages). I went to U of Ottawa for graduate school and everything you deal with admin-wise was in French, our departmental secretaries were French-speaking, and many of the students were French. So I got lots of opportunity to speak French, which made me bilingual "officially". Since we moved to Calgary (6 years + ago) I haven't spoken a lot of French except with coworkers who are from France or Quebec.

When I was in graduate school, I was a TA that had to correct some longer writing.

There were generally four groups of students I TA'd:

1) ESL types from overseas
2) French immersion anglophones
3) Francophones who went to French high school
4) Anglophones who went to English high school

Without question, the best writers were 2) and 3). By far. French Immersion requires you to learn grammar (granted, for a different language) but it taught you that sentences had to make sense. Group 4) (Canadian-born and educated) were often on par with group 1) for their writing. I was and still am appalled that people can write so poorly even though they went to high school. I think it was (and may still be the case) that grammar wasn't taught at all in English when I went to high school. Has that changed?

I would recommend to the OP to put their child in Immersion. Learning a second language (whether it be French or other) is invaluable to the child. English is ALL AROUND them - they will learn English just fine. Oh, and they are required to take English beyond a certain grade.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I think getting one's writing "voice" is a much different task than learning to speak. Writing requires practice and a level of maturity, regardless of your proficiency with a language.

I think it would be difficult to attribute poor writing skills to early immersion. Easiest answer would simply be that those people are not (yet) able writers.

[vtec260]

I have two children in French immersion jr and sr high schools. They started from kindergarten on with little or no problems and had not experienced any set backs with their English, thus far. They picked up Spanish as their third language (and my native tongue as their fourth). My wife and I do not speak French at all, but still bilingual, and they were able to get needed help from school if they had any questions. Math and science, we could help plus use of Google translate.

They may not use French in university and beyond, but at least, if any bilingual opportunities came up, they are at better chance than most. I definitely would recommend FI program if your children have discipline and patience to challenge themselves.

[Dozer]

One of the main benefits we have found with an immersion program is that in general the kids and parents need to spend extra time working on schoolwork. So you end up with a lot of like minded families with the focus being on education and learning. This really reduces the amount of kids in the class with behavioural issues, which in turn allows your kid to focus on schoolwork. That being said I think any type of immersion or specialized learning program (music,academic,sport) which relies on more parental engagement benefits learning greatly.