Soccer: It has to be said....

[transplant99]

How convenient that you forget to bring up Pete Rose and the controversy he brought to that sport.

Read what i said?

In 1919...yep. As far as fixing goes anyhow

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Red

Try doing running for 90 minutes in 30 + weather and you'll know exactly how hard it is not to cause a little stoppage.

try doing it for just 10! Soccer is brutal on the body, and you have to be in amazing shape to play the game at a high level. And not to bring the baseball comparison in again, cause this thread wasnt meant to bash it, but you will never find a Kirby Puckett in soccer. Even fat guys like Ronaldo still have to be in amazing shape to play the game.

Soccer is not like hockey (an equaly punishing sport) where you can take shifts and take rests atleast....so going endless OT is not really that realistic as these teams have only a handful of subs per game. Sure, Im not a fan of PK's deciding a game either, but until someone proposes are more realistic solution, thats what we'll have.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Read what i said?

oh, i got it. it was nice of you to only focus on one part of my comment, and try to mask the other one with a flippant remark. care to comment on the pete rose part of it though? or any other part for that matter.

[transplant99]

Pete Rose bet.....there is that better?

Good grief....i was commenting of game fixing, which is what the original comment was about.

[transplant99]

double post.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Table 5

try doing it for just 10! Soccer is brutal on the body, and you have to be in amazing shape to play the game at a high level. And not to bring the baseball comparison in again, cause this thread wasnt meant to bash it, but you will never find a Kirby Puckett in soccer. Even fat guys like Ronaldo still have to be in amazing shape to play the game.

Soccer is not like hockey (an equaly punishing sport) where you can take shifts and take rests atleast....so going endless OT is not really that realistic as these teams have only a handful of subs per game. Sure, Im not a fan of PK's deciding a game either, but until someone proposes are more realistic solution, thats what we'll have.

Well, if it would stop the diving, they could all stop for Capri Sun and Orange slices every 10 minutes.

[Jagger]

For what it's worth as a long time football fan, having been brought up in England watching the sport, I HATE DIVING AND PLAY ACTING. It drives me nuts, can't stand it, I think it ruins the sport I love to watch and play.

You see much less play acting in the English Premier than other continental leagues though. This World Cup was especially bad for this behaviour and I suppose I can understand casual watchers condemning the entire sport because of it..........

There was a excellent post on the World Cup thread that I thought perfectly summed up my feelings on the sport. Hopefully ayjackson won't mind me reprising it here as it really is perfect:

ayjackson wrote "they call football the beautiful game for a reason...let me explain the lure of soccer

some people only like movies if there are explosions and chases and people getting shot or fight scenes every five minutes.....other people like movies that have drama and build-up and ebb-and-flow and quality acting throughout.....

when soccer is at its finest, it is like the latter.....you can't have a short attention span, though....and you have to learn an appreciation for the subtleties (skill) of the game....

i actually find soccer and hockey to be very similar games.....just different venues....but the way you attack and defend is quite similar....finding space, playing the puck to the right man, etc."

However, I'll say it again I really do hate the current state of play acting. It stinks and most die-hard football fans will say the same thing. FIFA really has to do something about it.

[Thunderball]

I get a kick out of all these guys complaining that soccer isn't very entertaining... nearly 6 billion people tend to disagree with you.

However, i think diving needs to be dealt with by handing out suspensions and fines. Some leagues (believe it or not, the Italian Serie A is one of them) are already doing this to attempt to stop the diving.

[Thunderball]

As for the Italian Match Fixing Scandal... its not actually match fixing in the traditional sense.
A little backgrounder on "Calciopoli"

What is being alledged is that the heads of Juve, AC, Lazio and Fiorentina have a system in place where they can attempt to select friendly referees for their games and games that come right before their own important games. The only proof they have presented to the public are 40 phone conversations where it is implied that there is a system, though not clearly stated. It is also important to note that wire tapping without it being undertaken by legislation is illegal in Italy, yet somehow still being used...

With this "system", there is little proof that the course of the game has been altered as "friendly refs" have decided the game in the favor of the team they were "asked" to penalize. After one game, Moggi (the Juve GM, a diminuitive 65 year old man) apparently locked a referee in the dressing room for several hours. There is no proof nor allegation of money changing hands.

This is in stark contrast to the Lazio-AC Scandal in the early 80s, and the Schalke-Arminia Bielefeld Scandal in the 70s where a suitcase of money was physically used to get a team to throw the game. This one is mostly media inflated.

Now that Berlusconi (AC Milan and Mediaset, the largest media provider in Italy) has threatened to rip up the $100m US per year TV deal that Mediaset has with the Serie A under a breach of contract (lack of quality if 4 of the best 7 teams are relegated), I don't think you'll see much come of this.

[Shawnski]

Bla-bla-blah... yadda... yadda... yadda... "sucker" sucks....diving brutal...

Thought you might all appreciate a condenced version of my opinion!

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Having said that though, its still an amazing sport and cultural event. It's still the only sport that truly is on the world stage, and showcase how boring sports like baseball can be.

That's what I hate about soccer fan.

Soccer is overall a pretty "boring" game in comparison to hockey, football, or basketball (in terms of non-stop action). So is baseball. But I don't get how soccer fans can simply insult a game like baseball (and this isn't just directed at you - nearly every soccer fan I know holds a similar opinion) yet go on and on about how people who don't like soccer just don't get the nuances that make it such a great game. Baseball is the definition of a game that is interesting and entertaining because of the little things. MUCH, MUCH more so than soccer.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I get a kick out of all these guys complaining that soccer isn't very entertaining... nearly 6 billion people tend to disagree with you.

I wasn't aware that every single person on earth loved soccer. 1 billion people watched the World Cup Finals and a good amount of those (including me) were watching just because it's the big game.

I hate the ridiculous argument that soccer is so great because tons of people like it - does it occur to anyone that places like Ghana can't afford to play games like football or hockey and more importantly probably don't even know those sports exist.

I guess the Backstreet Boys are one of the best bands ever - tons of people love their music so it's gotta be good.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by JayP

I wasn't aware that every single person on earth loved soccer. 1 billion people watched the World Cup Finals and a good amount of those (including me) were watching just because it's the big game.

I hate the ridiculous argument that soccer is so great because tons of people like it - does it occur to anyone that places like Ghana can't afford to play games like football or hockey and more importantly probably don't even know those sports exist.

I guess the Backstreet Boys are one of the best bands ever - tons of people love their music so it's gotta be good.

It seems that soccer fans are the most agressive in defending their sport too. Alot of soccer fans seem to get very defensive and take it personal when people who aren't fans of the game put it down.

I wonder why that is

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

It seems that soccer fans are the most agressive in defending their sport too. Alot of soccer fans seem to get very defensive and take it personal when people who aren't fans of the game put it down.

I wonder why that is

It's all relative. On different occasions in the past couple of months, I've had to argue on behalf of hockey, soccer, and golf to different parties who are flabbergasted that I would be interested in said sport. I've also defended baseball in the past.

To each their own. Many sports have their issues, and soccer certainly has its share.

Still, I hope some changes can be made to improve the quality of the tournament, as I'm making the trip to South Africa for the 2010 World Cup. And it ain't cheap.

[Red]

Originally Posted by JayP

That's what I hate about soccer fan.

Soccer is overall a pretty "boring" game in comparison to hockey, football, or basketball (in terms of non-stop action). So is baseball. But I don't get how soccer fans can simply insult a game like baseball (and this isn't just directed at you - nearly every soccer fan I know holds a similar opinion) yet go on and on about how people who don't like soccer just don't get the nuances that make it such a great game. Baseball is the definition of a game that is interesting and entertaining because of the little things. MUCH, MUCH more so than soccer.

Yup, gotta love that non stop action in Football

[browna]

Playing soccer for almost 20 years at almost the highest level in the country, I'm obviously fairly biased. I enjoy all sports, and teams, including baseball and football in addition to hockey. For reference, I played youth hockey for almost 10 years too.

Like any sport, If you haven't played it, you won't get it. If you have no interest in the teams, or players, or rivalries, you look for sticking points.

The point made above about watching hockey during the lockout is valid...I know I watched basically zilch or any level, including WHL.

Re: Penalties. Honestly, with 11 guys, 3 subs, and such a large field, dragging the game on anouther 3 hours is going to degerate the game severely.

Hockey, there's chance for rest on line changes and every 20 (stop) minutes, and 4 lines rotating, so it can be accomplished without having guys cramp up. I've played tripe overtime hockey games and felt fine afterewards, but would cramp up sometimes at the end of a hard soccer game nearing 90 minutes.

Having the game go one hour longer and testing team and individual's endurance NOT to make mistakes, as opposed to having the wearwithall to captailize on a mistake, after a while, is no more decisive a victory the penatly kicks.

Although a slowly fading tradition, matches in English Cup go to entire game replays when tied after 90 minutes. Of course, that's not going to work in a World Cup, but it goes to show how having the teams at their best to decide matches takes precendace over an extra hour of endurance.

Re: Diving. Yes, its become an issue thrust to the front in this World Cup. Its been happening for years, at all levels.

Diving boils down (and this is true in any sport) its what can you get away with, without being penalized. With one ref covering a 110 by 60yd field, and linesman as far as 60 yards away from the limited calls they can make, it allows players to get away with a lot of borderline stuff that even the best trained official may miss. NHL officials mist stuff 20 feet in front of them, let alone 40 yds.

Also, as far as fegining injury, at the professional level, as many should have noticed, is sometimes takes on a tactical element. On come the water bottles when the trainers run on to look at a guy..players discuss tactics etc.

Yesterday, 3 minutes were added onto the 30 minutes of extra time...and there were a lot more then 3 minutes of "injuies" and the Zidane thing. So suddenly, the games a few minutes shorter, and player who've been out there for 100+ minutes, have a bit of a breather, a drink, and discuss tactics....

What does need to be tightened up is excessive fegining...the introduction of the stretcher has helped, but it should be tightened...if the stretcher is called on, that player must stay off for at least 2 or 3 minutes. Playing that long with 1 less player, will discourage the player from using it as tactics/making somewhat of a mockery of a little knock.

I'm not going to shootdown, nor agree with many of the attacks made on soccer....because "spectators" see it differently than do the "fans"....as is the case with any sport.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

It seems that soccer fans are the most agressive in defending their sport too. Alot of soccer fans seem to get very defensive and take it personal when people who aren't fans of the game put it down.

I wonder why that is

I think it's because it is the most attacked. North Americans tend to like North American sports, and a lot of people bash soccer because they don't like it and don't get why billions do.
Those of us in NA who actually watch soccer are a minority compared to other major sports, so we have to be extra vocal to counteract being outnumbered.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I think it's because it is the most attacked. North Americans tend to like North American sports, and a lot of people bash soccer because they don't like it and don't get why billions do.
Those of us in NA who actually watch soccer are a minority compared to other major sports, so we have to be extra vocal to counteract being outnumbered.

It's the same as being a baseball fan in Canada. Still a vast minority. I'd say 1 out of every 10-15 people I know would even consider watching a full regular season baseball game on TV. (People seem to pay more attention to the playoffs)

I dunno, I accept that baseball is probabaly boring for the casual sports fan...sometimes I get bored watching a blowout game with my team on the losing end. But I love it anyways. There is so much to learn, the game is so deep. If my friends critisize baseball, I usually just laugh it off. But when I take a jab at soccer, people go off the deep end.

It's almost like Soccer is more of a religion to some people than it is a sport.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by JayP

That's what I hate about soccer fan.

Soccer is overall a pretty "boring" game in comparison to hockey, football, or basketball (in terms of non-stop action). So is baseball. But I don't get how soccer fans can simply insult a game like baseball (and this isn't just directed at you - nearly every soccer fan I know holds a similar opinion) yet go on and on about how people who don't like soccer just don't get the nuances that make it such a great game. Baseball is the definition of a game that is interesting and entertaining because of the little things. MUCH, MUCH more so than soccer.

I am all for people liking whatever sport they want (even baseball). I think it's a matter of opinion, and can respect that people will like sports I hate and people will hate sports I like...

but...

how can you say football or basketball have more "non stop action" then soccer?

Football is a game that is stopped after every play. If you add up the time spent between plays in a game it will be higher then the actual time spent playing. That is "non stop"?

and basketball. The last 2 minutes of a basketball game take like 10 minutes. Foul, free throw, foul. free throw.
That's non stop too?

I happen to like both Basketball and football, so I'm not trying to insult those sports, but there's no was they are have more "non stop action" then soccer. The words "non stop" should not even be used in reference to those sports.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

It's the same as being a baseball fan in Canada. Still a vast minority. I'd say 1 out of every 10-15 people I know would even consider watching a full regular season baseball game on TV. (People seem to pay more attention to the playoffs)

I dunno, I accept that baseball is probabaly boring for the casual sports fan...sometimes I get bored watching a blowout game with my team on the losing end. But I love it anyways. There is so much to learn, the game is so deep. If my friends critisize baseball, I usually just laugh it off. But when I take a jab at soccer, people go off the deep end.

It's almost like Soccer is more of a religion to some people than it is a sport.

I agree with you about baseball.
I can't watch a baseball game, but I understand why someone like yourself can.
That's the same way I feel about soccer.

Whether soccer fans are more defensive, maybe? there are a lot of very pationate fans out there. That could be why.