Mark "Fricken" Jankowski (aka The Big Jankowski)

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by devo22

sorry, but I don't get this at all. Of course you have to consider his ranking on the team and also the team's overall offense if you want to assess a player's numbers. 25 points on the Friars is a completely different thing than, say, 25 points on the Eagles. On the Friars, he was 2nd in goals and 3rd in points last season ... on the Eagles, he would have been 5th in goals and 7th in points. Huge difference. You can't simply read a stat line and judge without looking closer at the situation.

Also, to quote myself from another thread:

that's not "stagnant numbers", but solid progress. Especially when you consider that Jankowski switched from the wing to center between his freshman and his sophomore season. Also, Jankowski won 54 percent of his faceoffs last season which is huge as well. And finally, he bulked up and added over 25 pounds since his draft day, which shows a lot of commitment and work ethic.

I'm excited about Jankowski. The worst thing to happen to him was Feaster overselling and hyping that prep school boy, but then the best thing to happen was probably the Flames drafting Monahan and Bennett afterwards. It allows the Flames to take their time and be patient with Jankowski, and it also took a lot of pressure from Jankowski who now doesn't have to be the savior of the franchise, but can take his time to develop properly. And he will, because Nate Leaman is a heck of a coach and Jankowski is learning a solid two way game at Providence. Personally, I think that's more important than just the stat line.

I still think 4 years of college and at least a year in the AHL will do him good. Then ... we'll see what he's made of. I have made that comparison before, but again, I think Alex Killorns path to the NHL is something to look at. Like Jankowski, he was heavily undersized when drafted (6'0 and 161 - now he's 6'2 and 205) and took his time to fill out his frame, played 4 years of college and made the NHL roster after 54 AHL games. If Jankowski can do a similar thing and become a responsible two way forward in the NHL, I'd be delighted.

I'm rooting hard for Jankowski. It has reached the point where I almost want to see him succeed only so that all the doubters and naysayers - and there have been plenty of those since he was drafted - can go and eat crow.

Stagnant is probably a poor choice on my part and I agree his draft position is going to be a huge obstacle his whole career, especially thanks to dumb and dumber who had to put him on an even higher rung draft day. There's still a huge difference between wanting him to succeed and reaching for things that aren't there.

Obviously he's not going to lead the NCAA in scoring on this team but his lesser known (in most cases) teammates have shown they can play within the system and still put up some significant numbers. Case in point Mauerman had a huge year last year in the same program and has nowhere near the physical tools Jankowski does. You've got to wonder why it hasn't happened yet for this kid when this stifling system apparently does allow for big statistical season just a year ago. From my point of view this year should be his year to do the same based on many factors you've already pointed out.

Obviously there's still a long way to go before the dust settles on this kid but let's not completely forget that he's a top pick and has the skills that should allow him to produce in both ends of the ice. For those watching him regularly, is he simply snake bitten this year, slowed by injuries, not generating?

[MrMastodonFarm]

His draft position doesn't matter anymore.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

His draft position doesn't matter anymore.

So if it doesn't matter, why are you bringing it up?

[Enoch Root]

It was Hot_Flatus that brought it up...

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Stagnant is probably a poor choice on my part and I agree his draft position is going to be a huge obstacle his whole career, especially thanks to dumb and dumber who had to put him on an even higher rung draft day. There's still a huge difference between wanting him to succeed and reaching for things that aren't there.

Obviously he's not going to lead the NCAA in scoring on this team but his lesser known (in most cases) teammates have shown they can play within the system and still put up some significant numbers. Case in point Mauerman had a huge year last year in the same program and has nowhere near the physical tools Jankowski does. You've got to wonder why it hasn't happened yet for this kid when this stifling system apparently does allow for big statistical season just a year ago. From my point of view this year should be his year to do the same based on many factors you've already pointed out.

Obviously there's still a long way to go before the dust settles on this kid but let's not completely forget that he's a top pick and has the skills that should allow him to produce in both ends of the ice. For those watching him regularly, is he simply snake bitten this year, slowed by injuries, not generating?

A comment that makes no sense.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Stagnant is probably a poor choice on my part and I agree his draft position is going to be a huge obstacle his whole career, especially thanks to dumb and dumber who had to put him on an even higher rung draft day. There's still a huge difference between wanting him to succeed and reaching for things that aren't there.

Obviously he's not going to lead the NCAA in scoring on this team but his lesser known (in most cases) teammates have shown they can play within the system and still put up some significant numbers. Case in point Mauerman had a huge year last year in the same program and has nowhere near the physical tools Jankowski does. You've got to wonder why it hasn't happened yet for this kid when this stifling system apparently does allow for big statistical season just a year ago. From my point of view this year should be his year to do the same based on many factors you've already pointed out.

Obviously there's still a long way to go before the dust settles on this kid but let's not completely forget that he's a top pick and has the skills that should allow him to produce in both ends of the ice. For those watching him regularly, is he simply snake bitten this year, slowed by injuries, not generating?

You forget that Mauermann is 4 years older than Jankowski (1990 birthdate vs 1994). That is a heck of a lot of physical maturity (and one would argue that Jankowski is even less physically mature than what kids his own age are) to give him a huge advantage in the NCAA.

In my opinion, you just have to be patient for Jankowski. There were (and still are) lots of things that this kid has to overcome. It may sound like just excuses, but one has to remember he was selected as a project. Projects take more time to develop. It doesn't mean they will never make it. It doesn't mean that they will never be top-end players. It just means that they have a much longer development cycle than non-project types. I personally think he is slowly but surely putting the 'bust' factor behind him with his progression. How good will he become is the question for me, and I think anywhere from a 4th liner up to a 1st liner if everything goes very well for him.

You still have a very large framed center with fantastic IQ, very smooth skating and can be explosive at times (as evidenced by a couple of last year's goals of which Friedman showed on HNIC), and he does possess a very high skill level. Right now, he is learning how to play a complete game (and apparently already excelling at defence) and has the trust of his coach.

If that isn't enough, how about the fact that his coach (who is very well respected in NCAA circles BTW) decided to pair this much older Mauermann guy with Jankowski in an effort to get Mauermann's game going - and in the first game Mauermann ends up getting a goal on a Jankowski rebound!). Add to this that his coach thought Jankowski is the more important and probably more competent center and put Mauermann (a center, and the last year's top-line center on the team) on Jankowski's wing?

Sometimes stats don't illustrate the full story. My biggest criticism of Jankowski is how he doesn't use his size enough (and I couldn't blame him being that rail-thin), but last year he was already going to the 'dirty areas' and cleaning up some garbage, as well as started driving the net more often. I bet this year he takes a bigger step forward in that regard with is larger size now.

I would be lying if I wasn't a little bit 'disappointed' in that Jankowski isn't a PPG+ player. I think we were a bit spoiled with Gaudreau from that respect. But comparing Providence to Boston College is like comparing apples and oranges as well.

- Jankowski IS putting on size (his biggest question mark was his frame)
- Jankowski IS playing defence well at a high level (another big question mark from the draft, and he is being trusted by one of the most respected coaches in the NCAA in that regard)
- Jankowski's numbers have increased every year so far

There is literally no way you can see any type of regression in his game. He has taken positive steps in every area of his game as well as physically. This makes me very positive about him in general, and as long as he continues to do so, I will continually say he is making more ground towards an NHL career and distancing himself further from being a bust.

Of course nothing is guaranteed until he either makes it or he doesn't, but I do see him more and more as a very useful player for the Flames in the future. I am just not too sure exactly how useful at the moment.

[Caged Great]

At worst, he's a defensively responsible 6-4 center who's good at faceoffs and is rather quick for his size. If he turns into a modern day Joel Otto, that's awesome. If his offensive abilities break out, then that's even better.

[getbak]

Providence hasn't had a point-per-game player in at least a decade (the stats on College Hockey News only go back to 2005-06, and in that time, they've only had 2 players over 0.9 PPG). In Jankowski's freshman year, the team's highest PPG was only 0.64 (lower than what Jankowski is at this season).

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So if it doesn't matter, why are you bringing it up?

It was brought up in the post directly above mine. Pay attention, god dammit.

[Brewmaster]

Originally Posted by getbak

Providence hasn't had a point-per-game player in at least a decade (the stats on College Hockey News only go back to 2005-06, and in that time, they've only had 2 players over 0.9 PPG). In Jankowski's freshman year, the team's highest PPG was only 0.64 (lower than what Jankowski is at this season).

Providence also hasn't had a forward that has gone on to be an NHL regular in that decade. Blaming a lack of production on his team and their history of low scoring is reaching for excuses in my opinion. Jankowski may still turn into an NHL player but he's going to have to improve his offensive output to get there.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Brewmaster

Providence also hasn't had a forward that has gone on to be an NHL regular in that decade. Blaming a lack of production on his team and their history of low scoring is reaching for excuses in my opinion. Jankowski may still turn into an NHL player but he's going to have to improve his offensive output to get there.

This is because Providence had a terrible program, and didn't attract good talent to begin with. How would you expect any NHL players to have come from there in the last decade? They start off by attracting players that most schools didn't want, and didn't have a good development program to build them up to the point that NHL teams wanted them either.

Nate Leaman left Union to build Providence's hockey program up. So, how do you attract NCAA prospects? Well, you hire a notable coach (done) that has a proven track record of developing kids in the NCAA and getting them into the NHL (by the way, Josh Jooris played for Leaman in his first year at Union). Now you try and create a winning environment. With a lack of talent, it is pretty tough to win games 7-6. Of course they become a very defence-oriented squad, and try to win games 1-0. Providence will attract a lot more talent if they win lots of 1-0 and 2-1 games than losing 10-9 games.

It isn't reaching for excuses. It is simply looking at the team and drawing reasonable conclusions. Providence IS a team that is basing their success on a heavily defensive philosophy. Until they attract much more talented players, that is simply going to be what they are. It doesn't help that they are a Christian college as there will be players that will simply avoid that school regardless of their hockey program, but that program is becoming much stronger.

I also don't quite agree that Jankowski HAS to increase his scoring. I do think it will help, and I definitely hope he does, but Jankowski can definitely enter the NHL as a center you throw out in any situation. There is nothing wrong with him leaving the NCAA as a defensive shutdown center/winger specialist, is there? Though that wouldn't be my first choice, if that is what he ends up becoming it is still a valuable asset to the Flames down the line.

[The Fonz]

Janko with 2 assists in a 5-1 win last night. Stat line:
10GP - 1G - 7A - 8PTS - +2

Gillies made 26 saves on 27 shots. Stat line:
7W - 5L - 1OTL - 1.80GAA - .941SV%


Keep it up boys!

[EastCoastFlamesFan]

wrong thread!

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It was Hot_Flatus that brought it up...


A comment that makes no sense.

Anyone that thinks a draft position no longer matters after draft day has got to be smoking something. The statement "Former first round pick" follows every player in every sport for the rest of their lives. This is generally due to the fact that at least one team in the league deemed said player to be the best player available - they have exceptional talent.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

You forget that Mauermann is 4 years older than Jankowski (1990 birthdate vs 1994). That is a heck of a lot of physical maturity (and one would argue that Jankowski is even less physically mature than what kids his own age are) to give him a huge advantage in the NCAA.

In my opinion, you just have to be patient for Jankowski. There were (and still are) lots of things that this kid has to overcome. It may sound like just excuses, but one has to remember he was selected as a project. Projects take more time to develop. It doesn't mean they will never make it. It doesn't mean that they will never be top-end players. It just means that they have a much longer development cycle than non-project types. I personally think he is slowly but surely putting the 'bust' factor behind him with his progression. How good will he become is the question for me, and I think anywhere from a 4th liner up to a 1st liner if everything goes very well for him.

You still have a very large framed center with fantastic IQ, very smooth skating and can be explosive at times (as evidenced by a couple of last year's goals of which Friedman showed on HNIC), and he does possess a very high skill level. Right now, he is learning how to play a complete game (and apparently already excelling at defence) and has the trust of his coach.

If that isn't enough, how about the fact that his coach (who is very well respected in NCAA circles BTW) decided to pair this much older Mauermann guy with Jankowski in an effort to get Mauermann's game going - and in the first game Mauermann ends up getting a goal on a Jankowski rebound!). Add to this that his coach thought Jankowski is the more important and probably more competent center and put Mauermann (a center, and the last year's top-line center on the team) on Jankowski's wing?

Sometimes stats don't illustrate the full story. My biggest criticism of Jankowski is how he doesn't use his size enough (and I couldn't blame him being that rail-thin), but last year he was already going to the 'dirty areas' and cleaning up some garbage, as well as started driving the net more often. I bet this year he takes a bigger step forward in that regard with is larger size now.

I would be lying if I wasn't a little bit 'disappointed' in that Jankowski isn't a PPG+ player. I think we were a bit spoiled with Gaudreau from that respect. But comparing Providence to Boston College is like comparing apples and oranges as well.

- Jankowski IS putting on size (his biggest question mark was his frame)
- Jankowski IS playing defence well at a high level (another big question mark from the draft, and he is being trusted by one of the most respected coaches in the NCAA in that regard)
- Jankowski's numbers have increased every year so far

There is literally no way you can see any type of regression in his game. He has taken positive steps in every area of his game as well as physically. This makes me very positive about him in general, and as long as he continues to do so, I will continually say he is making more ground towards an NHL career and distancing himself further from being a bust.

Of course nothing is guaranteed until he either makes it or he doesn't, but I do see him more and more as a very useful player for the Flames in the future. I am just not too sure exactly how useful at the moment.

You make some good points regarding the playing time with Mauerman (who i didn't realize was much older) this year and learning the defensive aspect of the game under a respected coach. I agree there's little doubt that he will be a responsible pro who thinks the game well at the very least after his time in college and you're exactly right, it's going to be a long road to the NHL if he does make it that far so reduced expectations are probably key.

I don't expect PPG levels on this team either but he's hardly taking significant steps forward in that category....You still can't tell me that this kid is so handcuffed in learning this system/defensive play that he can only muster 1 goal this year. Barring a huge finish he will look to have his worst statistical season when typically most players take the biggest steps forward in that regard (which is a regression whether you like it or not). His SH% is obscenely low so far this year so I do see room for growth once that levels back out but equally alarming is the lack of shots he's generating this season compared to his first two. Clearly several players on the team has taken a step back offensively this year but a top talent should be finding ways to break through from time to time - especially with his skating ability and hockey IQ as you say.

Guess I've always been of the school of thinking that you can teach a player to play defensively if they have the baseline ability to produce offensively in various levels of development. Its only going to get more difficult to score and create offensively as he moves along from here which is what concerns me the most.

[edslunch]

I would like to see him leave Providence after this season and go to a less stifling offensive environment. Learning defence is good and will serve him well but he needs to focus on his offensive game now if wants to get to the NHL.

[sureLoss]

^ I think in hindsight, skipping the year in the USHL may turn out to be detrimental to his overall development.

Especially considering the program he was going to had Gaudreau, Girgesons, Mattheson and Quenneville go through it.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I would like to see him leave Providence after this season and go to a less stifling offensive environment. Learning defines is good and will serve him well but he needs to focus on his offensive game now if wants to get to the NHL.

The only real alternative would be the AHL. Not sure if he's ready for the AHL.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

^ I think in hindsight, skipping the year in the USHL may turn out to be detrimental to his overall development.

Especially considering the program he was going to had Gaudreau, Girgesons, Mattheson and Quenneville go through it.

Don't know how anyone can suggest that with any certainty. At no point, even early on in his College career, Jankowski has never looked out of place. He's been a College player since he arrived. Those guys went through the program before they were drafted, Mark would have went after his draft year.

If he had looked out of place at any point, especially his first year, I might agree with you, but I'm puzzled how anyone can come to that conclusion.

At this stage he has 8 points in 12 games, If he had 2 more points I'd be pleased. More than half a season left, plenty of time to make up some points.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Don't know how anyone can suggest that with any certainty. At no point, even early on in his College career, Jankowski has never looked out of place. He's been a College player since he arrived. Those guys went through the program before they were drafted, Mark would have went after his draft year.

If he had looked out of place at any point, especially his first year, I might agree with you, but I'm puzzled how anyone can come to that conclusion.

At this stage he has 8 points in 12 games, If he had 2 more points I'd be pleased. More than half a season left, plenty of time to make up some points.

I am not saying it with certainty. After watching him when I can for the past 3 years, it still looks like he is not really driving offensive play. Yes there are flashes, but a lot of it is the work of his linemates. 4 of his 8 points this year are secondary assists and watching the highlights arguably he had little to do with the goals.

Yes down the line it may all click for him but IMO perhaps having the freedom of having more offensive creativity in a lower level might have given more confidence and understanding of what to do at a higher level, because sometimes, in my eyes, he just stands in the offensive zone while his wingers are the ones creating the offense.

edit: I still think he has the tools to be an NHLer, I am just concerned about his offence.

[Robbob]

With the bigger frame I wonder if maybe after this season he makes the leap to the AHL. I think coming in as a 21 year old from a very defensive team I don't think he will be a liability and may prove a better environment to develop. The only question is if there is room on the farm team as I would expect another infusion of youth coming (Klimchuck and Smith)