[Rumour] Dreger: Hall is the face of the Oiler's culture problem. I expect him to be shopped

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's neat how Hackey made up a fact (teams lining up for Hall) and then used that fact to draw a strange conclusion (GMs don't care about the "little things").

Actually you came to conclusions. I'm saying when a player of Hall's caliber comes on the market teams are not going to be scared away because of rumored character issues or this idea that he is the sole reason goals are scored when he is on the ice. I mean it's not like he's playing for the worst NHL team of the last ten years. But yes yes it is all his fault despite him being their best player year after year. You can try to downplay the guy however you want. Fact remains he's one of the best young players in the league today and there will be plenty of GMS trying to land him. Apparently that is mind blowing to you but it's pretty obvious to any unbiased hockey fan.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

You don't just look at his goals and assists from last year and make a massive offer, there's more to a hockey player than that.

You do if you live in Edmonton.

[saillias]

Nothing tinfoil, being a GM is a constant bluffing and bargaining game. Why do you waste your time telling Bob MacKenzie who you would take 1st overall in a redraft of 2011? Devalue the Oilers assets, take advantage of a weak GM.

[sureLoss]

Bob McKenzie chimes in:

Bob McKenzie was on Vancouver’s TSN 1040 on Tuesday morning.

On Darren Dreger’s comments on Taylor Hall, and how Hall might have been considered untouchable out of all of the Oilers:

“Well, he’s the one that certainly played the best and developed the most out of any of their young players, although like with everybody else to have hit a huge roadblock this year. But last year, he was one of the better left-wingers in the National Hockey League. Put up considerable points on a losing team.

“I’m of two minds on this whole Taylor Hall situation. The word emanating out of Edmonton is that he’s a difficult guy to coach, or that he’s not as much part of the solution as he part of the problem. And I guess I could see that.

“But the flip side of that for me is, I mean, if you go to the mall and you see a young kid acting up in the mall, is it the young kid’s fault, or is it the parents fault? And the problem I have in trying to evaluate Taylor Hall or any of the young players with the Edmonton Oilers is the parents haven’t done a very good job of raising these kids. There just hasn’t been any structure or accountability.

“The difference between what Calgary has done with Bob Hartley as coach and what the Oilers have done with a succession of coaches, it’s really striking the difference. And last year, the Calgary Flames were only five points better than the Edmonton Oilers. But didn’t it seem like they were 500 points better than the Oilers? They were a harder team to play against. They worked hard. They had structure. There seemed to be a culture. And that’s a word that gets used a lot in hockey, but the Calgary Flames seemed to be able instil a culture in terms of how, ‘This is how we play. This is how we’re accountable to each other.’ And it’s a foundation on which you can build.
“You never got the feeling with the Oilers that that culture was there. Now is that because the players won’t buy into what the coaches are selling them? Or is that because the coaches and the management are not doing a good enough job of selling it to the young players? Or they don’t have the right mix of players to be able to build on that.

“So I don’t know the answer to the question. And you’ve got to be really, really careful if you start tossing around names like Taylor Hall to trade because those were the rewards for some really bad hockey. And if you don’t make a home run trade when you trade one of those guys, you’re setting the franchise back another 10 years and my goodness, it’s almost been a decade as it is.”

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Actually you came to conclusions. I'm saying when a player of Hall's caliber comes on the market teams are not going to be scared away because of rumored character issues or this idea that he is the sole reason goals are scored when he is on the ice. I mean it's not like he's playing for the worst NHL team of the last ten years. But yes yes it is all his fault despite him being their best player year after year. You can try to downplay the guy however you want. Fact remains he's one of the best young players in the league today and there will be plenty of GMS trying to land him. Apparently that is mind blowing to you but it's pretty obvious to any unbiased hockey fan.

You seem to be grossly exaggerating the points people are making to further your own position. It is a combative stance that really doesn't help the conversation.

No one is saying it is ALL his fault
No one is saying there wouldn't be plenty of GMs trying to land him
No one is saying there wouldn't be market for him

So who exactly are you arguing with?

[Muta]

McKenzie is failing to realize that these are grown men, not kids. When you're a grown man, blaming 'structure and accountability' on others for your own problems is not an excuse anymore. That said, Edmonton hasn't developed them properly to some extent, and I see what Bob's saying here, but at the end of the day the production and discipline lies with Taylor Hall and the rest of his clown posse to put the results on the ice.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Actually you came to conclusions. I'm saying when a player of Hall's caliber comes on the market teams are not going to be scared away because of rumored character issues or this idea that he is the sole reason goals are scored when he is on the ice. I mean it's not like he's playing for the worst NHL team of the last ten years. But yes yes it is all his fault despite him being their best player year after year. You can try to downplay the guy however you want. Fact remains he's one of the best young players in the league today and there will be plenty of GMS trying to land him. Apparently that is mind blowing to you but it's pretty obvious to any unbiased hockey fan.

I didn't conclude anything, other than that you made something up out of whole cloth (teams lining up for Hall). They may well do so, but there's no evidence of that at all. When they do, and when they offer something significant in return, then you'll have facts upon which to base your argument.

Your conclusion was that GMs don't care about the "little things". Based on the "fact" that teams are lining up for Hall. Which you made up.

Defence isn't a "little thing". Character isn't a "little thing". Right now, Hall has little trade value. He's a mediocre scorer this year, with huge defensive issues, injury problems and a big salary. He's a winger - which places him a notch below a centre or defenceman of similar ability.

[dash_pinched]

This is going to be the funniest thing I read all day:

If you're EDM, at draft do u offer No. 1 pick to MTL for Subban/Price package? Or to LA for Doughty/Quick? Gotta get creative, aggressive.
— Damien Cox (@DamoSpin) December 16, 2014

[Stay Golden]

I can't see Hall, Eberle or RNH being content or enjoying being involved in this much suck in Edmonton.
They may say all the right things to the media but they must be thinking in private if there is a trade that make more sense to their careers than get me the hell out of here.
Btw does RNH even talk. Hall, Eberle and RNH all make these big 6m paychecks but Hall is the one always getting pressed for answers.
When it comes to Oilers I can't help but hear Benny Hill theme music in my head.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by dash_pinched

This is going to be the funniest thing I read all day:

If you're EDM, at draft do u offer No. 1 pick to MTL for Subban/Price package? Or to LA for Doughty/Quick? Gotta get creative, aggressive.
— Damien Cox (@DamoSpin) December 16, 2014

Damien Cox is in his own little world.

[FlamesAddiction]

I believe McKenzie is correct. Hall can still be a really valuable player in the right environment. He is only 23 (less than a calendar year older than Baertschi whom many are still withholding judgment on). It just won't happen in Edmonton as other mentioned, as they handed him the keys way too early and I am not sure you can ever go back once you do that. Get him playing on a team with strong leadership, and I think he would make a good passenger. Not every talented player is the personality type to be a leader.

The only thing that worries me about him is that his playing style is conducive to injury.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

You're saying GMs don't care about character issues, low hockey IQ and a lack of willingness to play team defense?

Seguin has all those flaws and the Bruins didn't have a problem finding a trade partner. Scoring goals is a pretty important skill in the NHL.

[Demaeon]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Bob McKenzie chimes in:

“But the flip side of that for me is, I mean, if you go to the mall and you see a young kid acting up in the mall, is it the young kid’s fault, or is it the parents fault?"

As a parent of two young kids, I'm thinking Taylor is probably just hungry.

Or maybe he needs a nap.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Bob McKenzie chimes in:

Well, Bob, part of the reason they seemed like they were more than 5 points better than the Oilers is because they were 10 points better than the Oilers.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Actually you came to conclusions. I'm saying when a player of Hall's caliber comes on the market teams are not going to be scared away because of rumored character issues or this idea that he is the sole reason goals are scored when he is on the ice. I mean it's not like he's playing for the worst NHL team of the last ten years. But yes yes it is all his fault despite him being their best player year after year. You can try to downplay the guy however you want. Fact remains he's one of the best young players in the league today and there will be plenty of GMS trying to land him. Apparently that is mind blowing to you but it's pretty obvious to any unbiased hockey fan.

He's not the sole reason. But those "little things" that you discounted for the GMs are the sole reason. It's just that he's not the only one missing them, most of the team is.

The little things he's missing may not make GMs not want him, but they will make the GM want to pay a whole lot less for the player than if he did have those abilities.

To be fair to Hall, there aren't that many 2-way wingers, the position doesn't necessitate it the way centre does. Not ones that put up PPG numbers anyways. But the whole team ignores the d-side, and the accusation here is that Hall is leading the charge of no-good defensive play, and so the rest (or majority of the team aka his barstar buddies) are following suit.

Everyone is not Hall's problem, but Hall has extrapolated his deficiencies across the entire team. Not necessarily his fault, but he (but not only him) has to go for it to change.

The point people here are making is that his value is lower than his VISUAL hockey playing abilities because his intangibles need a lot of work. A lot.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Seguin has all those flaws and the Bruins didn't have a problem finding a trade partner. Scoring goals is a pretty important skill in the NHL.

They also got fleeced big time. If the Oil were to accept an over paid 3rd liner, teams would be lining up for Hall, despite his awful hockey IQ.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Demaeon

As a parent of two young kids, I'm thinking Taylor is probably just hungry.

Or maybe he needs a nap.

Or they could try the Elf on a Shelf.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by codynw

Nugent-Hopkins was projected to be an elite #1 centre before he was drafted, and is still only 22 years old. It's not too late, put him in a real organization and he turns into a great player.

And yet Money is showing that trend already at a younger age.

Monahan will be the better player but more importantly has a far more hilarious twitter.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

They also got fleeced big time. If the Oil were to accept an over paid 3rd liner, teams would be lining up for Hall, despite his awful hockey IQ.

At the time of that trade, Eriksson was not an 'overpaid 3rd liner' - he had for straight seasons of 60+ points, and three of those years were 70+.

Not Boston's fault he was concussed.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Seguin has all those flaws and the Bruins didn't have a problem finding a trade partner. Scoring goals is a pretty important skill in the NHL.

I could counter that Seguin didn't necessarily have a breakout season until after he was traded.