2 Wildrose MLAs to cross to PCs

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Greg Clark must be loving this - his party is about to become more relevant if this happens.

How? They're not relevant at all. The only sliver of hope seems to be if the rumour of Carter trying to being Smith across is true somehow. Otherwise 2% of the vote wins approximately zero seats.

I also think the comment about Elbow is wishful thinking. They had the 'dream team' to run the campaign (their words not mine), the tens of Alberta Party people from around the province and a relatively high profile byelection to try to win a seat. They put everything they had into it, and didn't make it. If you think the Wildrose supporters are going to Korea to the Alberta Party en masse, I think you're dreaming.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Yep. Time for a real opposition to (put egos aside) come together and provide a real alternative (big tent - centrist). If not, we're all screwed in an actual one party state type situation. I don't like Wildrose, but at least they are an opposition.

Another centrist party? The PC already holds that position and they are a juggernaut. Opposition needs to come from the outside and not the center.

I'm really disappointed in WRP leadership. This is a really surprising move. It is unfortunate that the party couldn't rally together, potentially under a new leader, for the next election.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by LanceUppercut

From finishing a close 2nd in one riding to a distant 2nd in one riding?

Greg Clark commented on Twitter last night that the Wildrose was the most effective opposition Alberta has ever had. While I agree with him, I also found that to be a rather devious comment. Beyond the obvious praise of Wildrose's efforts, it was also a strong rebuke against the Liberals and NDP. He's basically noting that following a reunification, there will be a total vaccuum in place of an effective opposition. Expect Clark to be hammering that message home from now until the election.

Originally Posted by Bunk

An opposition has to come together. Has to. Disaffected Red Tories, liberals, Alberta Party - dare I say even NDP.

Put differences (and more importantly egos) aside and create a big tent centrist party.

The NDP are not centrist, and as usual, the Liberals and PCs are closer on the scales than the Liberals and NDP are. A frankenparty consisting of those two groups would end up as a mess that satisfied nobody, least of all Alberta voters outside Edmonton as it would sit farther to the left of where the Liberals are now.

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I can't wait to see the staunch wild rose supporters on this board defend the great and noble PC party again.

Ask Dion. He crossed the floor weeks ago.

But the other side of your coin is the staunch PC defenders praising the great and noble PC MLAs like Anderson and Smith.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

How? They're not relevant at all. The only sliver of hope seems to be if the rumour of Carter trying to being Smith across is true somehow. Otherwise 2% of the vote wins approximately zero seats.

I also think the comment about Elbow is wishful thinking. They had the 'dream team' to run the campaign (their words not mine), the tens of Alberta Party people from around the province and a relatively high profile byelection to try to win a seat. They put everything they had into it, and didn't make it. If you think the Wildrose supporters are going to Korea to the Alberta Party en masse, I think you're dreaming.

Yup. Calgary-Elbow and its predecessors have been PC or SoCred for at least six decades now, almost uninterrupted. It's wishful thinking at this point to believe Clark could take down an entrenched minister in that riding. Any Bill 10 protest vote hopes will evaporate over time.

The larger issue for Clark is that he lost his galvanizing moment to bring people to his side when he lost the by-election. Wildrose could not have grown the way it did without Paul Hinman's by-election win giving a solid percentage of the electorate something to rally around as they grew frustrated with the ineffective leadership of Stelmach.

I will give Clark his due though - I'd certainly rather see him as opposition leader over Raj Sherman. Assuming the Liberals and Alberta Party don't reunite, I hope Clark is smart enough to run in a riding against weaker PC competition.

[Slava]

I think people praising the Wildrose as the best opposition we've had are just forgetting the Liberals under Decore. He ran on a tight fiscally conservative platform and pushed Klein to do the same. That was far more effective than what we've seen now. It's just that it's too far back for people to remember.

[Kjesse]

Agreed on Decore, and he did it while fighting cancer. But since then there has been no effective opposition until recently.

I don't see any outs for a Smith here, she's finished politically because of this, even if she stays.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Slava

How? They're not relevant at all. The only sliver of hope seems to be if the rumour of Carter trying to being Smith across is true somehow. Otherwise 2% of the vote wins approximately zero seats.

I also think the comment about Elbow is wishful thinking. They had the 'dream team' to run the campaign (their words not mine), the tens of Alberta Party people from around the province and a relatively high profile byelection to try to win a seat. They put everything they had into it, and didn't make it. If you think the Wildrose supporters are going to Korea to the Alberta Party en masse, I think you're dreaming.

Welp, to each their own. I personally believe Clark is going to be more at the forefront going forward if he has to create a unified centrist position. And as for Calgary Elbow? Who says he's going to run there again? He's a smart guy - he'll pick his battles and choose to run in a riding that makes sense to win a seat- who knows if he'll do it again in that particular area.

[Slava]

Last I heard he plans to run in Elbow. I have heard a name for the Alberta Party in Calgary Buffalo (which is the only seat they would have a hope in winning if the Liberals don't field a strong candidate...) and its not him. I have heard another name for Mountainview which is David Swann's riding, and the Alberta might have a glimmer of hope there.

[Barbecue]

omg... i just woke up to this news...

I never had this feeling of monopolistic helplessness since WWE bought out WCW and ECW...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I can't wait to see the staunch wild rose supporters on this board defend the great and noble PC party again.

Can't do it, even with Prentice, I no longer trust the PC's at all.

I hate this move because basically this clears the way for the PC's to pretty much run opposed and create a Palpatine-esque ruling party that will have little in the way of opposition and will rule for a 1000 years.

Danielle Smith should be completely vilified for her role in this. Every government needs an opposition party that will monitor and disclose and question and find fault in the ruling party, that will hold that party's feet to the fire. The Liberals and the NDP are incapable of doing that during periods of sitting governments and during elections.

I strongly dislike my sitting MLA who is a PC, but I refused to vote for him in the last election even though it did little good because that's what you do in a democracy. You can send a message through opposition.

For all of the people that sent Wildrose MLA's to the house, the feeling of betrayal is enormous that they will wake up today to find that the monster that they couldn't vote for is now their party and their MLA has turned on them.

I'm not really convinced that a 43 year dynasty that will now shoot for 50 or 100 years in party has the best interests of the Voters at heart, cynically they like the perks of power and they run the province based on their own party's self interests.

This is a very dark day for democracy in this province. The Wild Rose party really needed to make a change to the leadership structure of that party and gear up for another run at office. Instead they sold out and went back to the provincial government monopoly.

Now people are going to say that I'm a hypocrite, look at the merger of the Conservatives and Reform federally, and maybe I am. But in that case, it was two opposition parties that were weak merging to build a stronger opposition party. This is the governing party ensuring that they will never be opposed again by buying their competitor.

Maybe Danielle Smith is tired of running the party, maybe she finally see's herself as unelectable as a party leader and wants to take the safe road to power.

But she basically took the hand of the devil himself and sold her soul.

Shamefull.

At least a party that turned out to be undeserving is going to take a bullet to the head. the only hope for this province is to build another opposition party.

I might have to swallow my bile and vote Liberal or NDP next time.

Disgusting.

[troutman]

For years WR has done nothing but demonize the PCs, and now they are going to sit at the same table with them?

Political opportunism > will of the membership

[Bigtime]

So Cap'n, Danielle Smith is the Jar Jar of AB politics?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think people praising the Wildrose as the best opposition we've had are just forgetting the Liberals under Decore. He ran on a tight fiscally conservative platform and pushed Klein to do the same. That was far more effective than what we've seen now. It's just that it's too far back for people to remember.

Someone brought up Decore. Clark said he represented the best government we never had.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Danielle was an opportunist who saw a chance to ride vote anger right to becoming Premier. Too bad for her she badly overplayed her hand with regards to Redford or maybe she could have done it. But once Prentice entered the equation the Wildrose was always in deep trouble. Most WR supporters at one point in time undoubtedly thought highly of Prentice when he was an MP, so it was always going to be harder to bring him down. Voter anger only takes you so far. Amazing to think if she had stood up to those crazies back in 2012 instead of being indifferent she might have been Premier.

Originally Posted by Bunk

Yep. Time for a real opposition to (put egos aside) come together and provide a real alternative (big tent - centrist). If not, we're all screwed in an actual one party state type situation. I don't like Wildrose, but at least they are an opposition.

Yup, the PCs got elected because the centrist vote rallied around them primarily to block to Wildrose. Now that the PCs appear to be pivoting back right, there's going to be a void for the centrist vote. Two party politics sucks but it still beats one party politics so everyone from the centre to the left need to come together. I think we all know who the man who can do that is, but we selfishly want to keep him here.

[Parallex]

Why?

Really why would any of them want this? The PC's already have a super-majority... what, they won't be satisfied until they have a super-duper majority? Why would the WRP'ers want this?.. you didn't vote PC for a reason remember. I have some cold water for you, if you think your going to jump into the belly of the beast and change it from the inside out then you're wrong... you and your lot are just going to get digested.

Seriously, this is a bad thing... 9 people can not effectively hold a government to account (not that 25 really could either but it's better then 9) and that's bad for everybody.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Seriously, this is a bad thing... 9 people can not effectively hold a government to account (not that 25 really could either but it's better then 9) and that's bad for everybody.

Hard to disagree with your overall argument, but those 25 got the affable but bumbling Stelmach out, then helped (with a lot of internal support from PCers themselves) cut down Redford.

So in that respect, yes they held the government accountable.

I don't really like the idea of a merger for the reason you argue - it leaves the province without anything approaching effective opposition. That really only moves us back to status quo ante, however, as Alberta has generally always lacked effective opposition.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

So Cap'n, Danielle Smith is the Jar Jar of AB politics?

hopefully more like Ellors Madak, don't know what that is? Hopefully we'll remember her in the same way as we remember that Star Wars character. In other words we won't.

[crazy_eoj]

I'm pretty dissapointed in this news, as I don't see how joining the PC's helps the Wildrose members except for potentially saving their own bacon in upcoming elections. This leaves Alberta without an effective opposition, and a party claiming to be 'centrist' in control but seeming rather rudderless in terms of policy and direction.

From the PC viewpoint, I can only hope that Prentice is wanting to move the PC's, who really have been following left wing fiscal policies for over a decade and spending like there's no tomorrow, back towards fiscal responsibility by bringing in a couple of Wildrose MLA's into the cabinet during a downtown. But somehow I don't see how the party membership is onside with that idea.

If the Liberals (or any party) returned to Laurence Decor inspired fiscal policy they could have my vote.

[GP_Matt]

If some Wildrose members can achieve what they set out to by crossing the floor then I think it is okay. A lot of them got in because of their strong feelings about property rights that were being seriously threatened under Stelmach. They ran on a platform of reforming property rights and made some serious inroads as the opposition but can only do so much. The Rick Bell article indicates that the deal will reopen all the property rights bills so this could be what they need to achieve what they want.

I guess my outrage will depend on the individual and why he is crossing. I am sure some are crossing simply to preserve their jobs and they should be identified and tossed out. Those who crossed to achieve policy that they campaigned on seem acceptable to me.

Personally, I joined the Wildrose because I think Alberta needed a strong opposition to keep the ruling party in check. I do not plan to transfer my support to the PC party though. If a credible opposition springs up in the vacuum I may support it, or I may just continue my slow slide into apathy.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

If some Wildrose members can achieve what they set out to by crossing the floor then I think it is okay. A lot of them got in because of their strong feelings about property rights that were being seriously threatened under Stelmach. They ran on a platform of reforming property rights and made some serious inroads as the opposition but can only do so much. The Rick Bell article indicates that the deal will reopen all the property rights bills so this could be what they need to achieve what they want.

I guess my outrage will depend on the individual and why he is crossing. I am sure some are crossing simply to preserve their jobs and they should be identified and tossed out. Those who crossed to achieve policy that they campaigned on seem acceptable to me.

Personally, I joined the Wildrose because I think Alberta needed a strong opposition to keep the ruling party in check. I do not plan to transfer my support to the PC party though. If a credible opposition springs up in the vacuum I may support it, or I may just continue my slow slide into apathy.

I feel like that is exactly the direction I'm heading in. I just don't care anymore and have more to do in life.