[News] Matt Stajan activated from IR; Corban Knight assigned to Adirondack

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

As for faceoffs, Stajan's stats are a little padded thanks to all his starts on the 4th line. If you take a look at when he was playing a shutdown center last year his faceoffs really suffered-
Nugent-Hopkins 44.2%
Towes 40%
Backstrom 57.7%
Thornton 46.2%
Crosby 20%
Sedin 63.6%
Datsyuk 29.4%
Tavares 27.3%
...

Who on the Flames would have better numbers? And what is the league average against those guys? I know Stajan is above the league average against Joe T, Backstrom, Sedin, and was pretty close to league average against Toews.

Rough against Datsyuk, Tavares and Crosby but pretty limited sample size. 2 games apiece (assuming he played in them). Last change in one apiece.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by saillias

Ryan Lambert knows less about hockey than the ATB fangirl. I am disappointed in myself for clicking that link and reading some of his trash.

Edit: In case you're curious, this is what he does. He looks up corsi numbers and then uses those as the be-all end-all on how good players and teams are. Last year he smugly proclaimed Monahan should be sent down because corsi. and attacked the intelligence of anyone who disagreed. Just another guy in the same breed of mudcrutch but I am lled to believe that guy actually does some good work in tracking these stats, whereas Lambert as far as I can tell just takes numbers he finds and then draws conclusions on them. You will not find a single bit of content that suggests he watched a hockey game. It's just numbers = conclusions.

Ryan Lambert is a funny character. He had an article saying Monahan played the wing all last season, when I called him out on it via twitter we had a funny exchange that lead to him getting flustered and quitting twitter for a couple days.

He attacks attacks attacks when someone disagrees with him but when fired back upon he sulks.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I dint think Jooris finishes with over 20 goals if that's what you're asking. He'll continue to be a good energy plate that chips in, but there's nothing in his history that suggests this will continue

On the plus side Jooris has been very good since Penticton. It is possible that he just all of a sudden gets it, what he needs to do to make the NHL. Ferland could also maybe put in this category. I don't know if it will last but for the moment, I'll enjoy it.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Who on the Flames would have better numbers? And what is the league average against those guys? I know Stajan is above the league average against Joe T, Backstrom, Sedin, and was pretty close to league average against Toews.

Rough against Datsyuk, Tavares and Crosby but pretty limited sample size. 2 games apiece (assuming he played in them). Last change in one apiece.

First of all, as I mentioned results go both ways, you can click the link to see the entire list. League averages for those guys(last season)- 52.2, 50.4, 52.3, and 57.2 respectively. Again, I am not saying Stajan is terrible on the dot, but he does have a hard time against the league's elite. That is why I can't see him as a faceoff specialist at the moment.

On the other hand, Monahan seems to be holding his own pretty well against those guys(last season, not so much). So its the coaches choice, but I am feeling more confident with Monahan on the ice against the other teams' best lines at the moment.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

First of all, as I mentioned results go both ways, you can click the link to see the entire list. League averages for those guys(last season)- 52.2, 50.4, 52.3, and 57.2 respectively. Again, I am not saying Stajan is terrible on the dot, but he does have a hard time against the league elite. That is why I can't see him as a faceoff specialist at the moment.

On the other hand, Monahan seems to be holding his own pretty well against those guys(last season, not so much). So its the coaches choice, but I am feeling more confident with Monahan on the ice against the other teams' best lines at the moment.

That list shows that, aside from RNH, Stajan did well against the top guys who he faced a lot last year. He's about league average against Toews (a top 3 guy in the league) and above league average against Thornton and Sedin.

I suspect he was as good or better than Monahan has been against the same guys this year (of course Monahan hasn't faced Crosby, Tavares, Datsyuk at all).

But more than that, having two centres that play good defence makes Monahan's job easier and frees him up more. It makes Hartley's job easier as well, especially on the road.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That list shows that, aside from RNH, Stajan did well against the top guys who he faced a lot last year. He's about league average against Toews (a top 3 guy in the league) and above league average against Thornton and Sedin.

I suspect he was as good or better than Monahan has been against the same guys this year (of course Monahan hasn't faced Crosby, Tavares, Datsyuk at all).

But more than that, having two centres that play good defence makes Monahan's job easier and frees him up more. It makes Hartley's job easier as well, especially on the road.

_______Stajan(last,this)____Monahan(this)
Towes_______40%,N/A________60%
Thornton_____46.2,N/A________44.4
Sedin________63.6,0%________50
Hopkins______44.2,50_________50
Backstrom____57.7,45.5_______47.4

Again, stats can easily be manipulated, that is why I am not trying to just show one side of a picture. I just hope that if the Flames can keep up with their current pace, other teams will be trying to use their first lines to 'defend' Monahan and not the other way around. That said, I don't think we will see a great improvement in our faceoffs, or PK once Stajan draws into the lineup.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I dint think Jooris finishes with over 20 goals if that's what you're asking. He'll continue to be a good energy plate that chips in, but there's nothing in his history that suggests this will continue

On the other hand, there's nothing in Jooris’s history that suggests he should even be in the NHL in the first place. He’s really broken out into uncharted territory. How much offence he contributes for the rest of the season is anyone’s guess.

(By the way, what’s an energy plate, and how does it work? Is it like one of those magnetic induction stoves, or more like a transporter pad from Star Trek? Gotta love autocorrect. )

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Setoguchi is a winger on a "no risk" career resurrection contract and played only half of the games. Bouma is a 24 year old RFA winger. Not comparables at all.

I get that and I agree. But when you're trying to offer up Stajan in a trade, does Stajan being 30 instead of 25 improve his value?

Just because we had good reasons to sign Stajan to that contract is irrelevant to a potential trading partner. Just as his value as a locker room presence in Calgary will not necessarily mean anything to potential trading partners.

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

We disagree on whether Stajan is a bottom half of the roster player. I view forwards as top-middle-bottom.

Could he play a 3rd line role for some other team? Absolutely. But he's still paid too much for that role. Could he play a 2nd line role? Yes, but not on a very good team. He's mostly been a top 6 forward on pretty bad teams. Currently on a playoff-bound team he's 14th in ice time, a 4th liner.

Stajan fits in the middle IMO - which means I find a near average cap hit suitable. Even if Stajan starts the game on the fourth line, he's capable of moving up the lineup if someone else is struggling, and can be a contributor on both special teams or from a shortened bench.

With 3 million you can do better than 4th line utility player.

(Btw, Stajan has 4 PP points for the Flames in four seasons. A PP contributor he is not.)

Still, I want to repeat that I'm okay with all that. Some players are always going to be overpaid and some underpaid. Ultimately all that matters is that a team can afford to pay the sum of all it's contracts.

Stajan being overpaid is not an issue for us now, and when the time to trade him comes, all it takes is one team that's not close to the cap and needs center depth that can play on the PK.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

In section 3 of the article referenced below, Ryan Lambert makes the argument that Jooris' production will not last.

http://flamesnation.ca/2014/12/4/fiv...eep-on-rolling

I hope he's wrong. What do people think?

If you have a stat that suggests that the Oilers should be 'middle of the league' and you accept it and conclude that they have been unlucky, then you are an idiot.

I stopped reading at that point, and feel nauseous for having clicked on it.

[Dentoman]

I couldn't resist reading the article after the discussion about it ...... truly a waste of time.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

_______Stajan(last,this)____Monahan(this)
Towes_______40%,N/A________60%
Thornton_____46.2,N/A________44.4
Sedin________63.6,0%________50
Hopkins______44.2,50_________50
Backstrom____57.7,45.5_______47.4

Again, stats can easily be manipulated, that is why I am not trying to just show one side of a picture. I just hope that if the Flames can keep up with their current pace, other teams will be trying to use their first lines to 'defend' Monahan and not the other way around. That said, I don't think we will see a great improvement in our faceoffs, or PK once Stajan draws into the lineup.

Fair enough. Monahan sure has gotten good for a sophomore. That said, I still think that having two guys who are decent on draws is better than one (Jooris is good as well, though I suppose his matchups aren't the same).

For sure Stajan is moving down the depth chart, and assuming Bennett is as advertised, there may no longer be room (assuming Backlund is ever going to be healthy). I like both Backlund and Stajan but they are definitely on different curves.

[Brewmaster]

I'm excited to see Stajan back in the lineup and hoping he will take Granlund's spot at centre. I like what I've seen from Granlund, but he still has some work to do before taking a full time spot up the middle. His faceoffs, of which he has taken the second most on the team this season, are at 34%. I know he's doing some good things defensively but he can't stay at centre while getting consistently beat in the faceoff circle by that amount.