Will Jones and Glencross be Flames next season?

[Samuelsson]

I'd flip 'em both if it was me, or at the very most sign 1 (probably Jones).

Prospects/picks in return, as well as making space for our youngsters to compete for. All makes sense.

[ricardodw]

I thinks that this last 25 games have gotten CP to believe in magic.

This is the magic list so far:

1) Gio the best D-man in the league
2) Gio/Brodie is the best pairing
3) Wideman is the #1 goal scoring d-man in the league
4) Gaudreau was NHL ready
5) Monahan is even better than his rookie year
6) Jooris (a 2nd-tier prospect) is a better NHL player than he was in the AHL
7) Granlund was ready
8) Hillier has turned out to be better than anyone thought

So many things have gone right that it is hard to imagine things going wrong.

Glencross (and Hudler) have been key players who have merely been meeting expectations.

The line between winning (and great team attitude) and losing is very marginal (see the Avs) .

Glencross is a very important player on this Flames team.

To dump him and count on Ferland / Hunter Smith/ Poirier to be the #9 magical thing in being able to replace him just seems to me to be tempting fate.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Curtis Glencross, the myth, the legend...

I don't hate Glencross, but lets look at this from a possibly interested GM's perspective when it come to the real numbers

Has never played a full season in the NHL.

Has suffered serious enough injuries to miss 13+ games in all seasons but 2.

Has never broken 50 points.

Has broken 45 points once.

Has broken 20 goals twice in his career. 25 goals once.

Is about to turn 32 years old and is on pace for for less than 15 goals and if lucky enough to stay healthy, which is unlikely as history has proven, will score maybe 40 points.

How in the world does that command 5M/

It doesn't and when you consider his attitude, I cannot see many teams offering anything close to that on the open market.

And I for one hope he moves on and someone with a legit chance as a bonafide top 6 chance takes his place.

2 words: Benoit Pouliot

Here are some players making between $4 million and $5 million.

Pouliot
Bryan Bickell
Drew Stafford
Jussi Jokinen
Ales Hemsky
Nikolai Kulemin
Milan Michalek
David Jones
P.A. Parenteau
Chris Stewart
TJ Oshie
David Perron

How many of those guys would you take over Glencross right now? I think Oshie, maybe Perron, and maybe Jokinen. I think the right price for Glencross is $4 million to $4.5, but you know someone will overpay to have him. He's a quality veteran with a good two-way game, provides good leadership, and has good character. In today's market, it would not be a stretch at all for him to make $5 million a year for 3-4 years.

[debil]

I know you don't like advanced stats but Glenross:

4th best LW in the league in blocked shots, 8th in the team
9th best LW in takeaways, 3rd in the team
19th best LW in hits, 2nd in the team

I'd keep him but short 2-3y contract and no overpayment.

[Sylvanfan]

Glencross' timing is unfortunate. Last year the team could have given him a 3 year deal for 12-13.5 million without too much trouble. This summer, Unless you can get him for 9 million on that term, you need to let him walk.

As for Jones, I expect he'll be a Flame until his contract expires after next year. Really that's a good expiring contract to have when you want to re-sign Giordano and Monahan.

[Savvy27]

I wouldn't re-sign Glencross during the season. Let him take a look at free agency and see what he can get out there. It's not that he is a bad player at all, but the team has to allow some spots to open up as younger players earn them. If he wants to re-sign short term, I see value in that.

Two seasons from now the Flames are going to have: Raymond, Gaudreau, Baertschi, Ferland, Bouma, and Klimchuk vying for left wing spots. That's without taking Bollig, Byron, Hudler, Granlund, Agostino, and Colborne (edit: Wold and Van Brabant too, also forgot about keeping a wing spot open for Bennett to get used to the league) into consideration or any trades or free agent opportunities.

Raymond, Gaudreau, and Bouma are locks. Is the contribution that Glencross is going to make over those seasons worth filling the remaining spot and at one of the higher salaries on the team? I don't think so (though there is certainly an argument that he does).

As for Jones, the competition at RW is a lot less stiff. Hudler, Colborne, Byron, Poirier, Knight, Hanowski, Jooris, and McGrattan. Keeping Jones around for his salary and to bolster the depth makes some sense. He adds size, skates well, and can chip in on the scoresheet. The idea of a Bouma-Stajan-Jones checking line is appealing.

TL;DR - let Glencross walk at the end of the year and keep Jones til the end of next season.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

2 words: Benoit Pouliot

Here are some players making between $4 million and $5 million.

Pouliot
Bryan Bickell
Drew Stafford
Jussi Jokinen
Ales Hemsky
Nikolai Kulemin
Milan Michalek
David Jones
P.A. Parenteau
Chris Stewart
TJ Oshie
David Perron

How many of those guys would you take over Glencross right now? I think Oshie, maybe Perron, and maybe Jokinen. I think the right price for Glencross is $4 million to $4.5, but you know someone will overpay to have him. He's a quality veteran with a good two-way game, provides good leadership, and has good character. In today's market, it would not be a stretch at all for him to make $5 million a year for 3-4 years.

I'm not going to look up every players stats on that list, but there are a lot younger, bigger and more skilled guys on that list than Glencross.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I'm not going to look up every players stats on that list, but there are a lot younger, bigger and more skilled guys on that list than Glencross.

I like Oshie and he's having an off year. I'd like him on the team. Pretty consistent up till now, plays bigger than 5'11". Still only 27.

Mind you, he's had a concussion this year and just got a head shot again.

[CalgaryFan1988]

With the LW depth on the team, I hope Glencross goes to free agency (or better yet accepts a trade before the deadline).

I know he's not too popular, but I'd rather Chris Stewart on this team at the beginning of next season. He has a questionable work ethic (same as Glencross), but he's only 27 and can hit/fight/score.

[Kidder]

The man has an arrogance to his game that is beautiful to behold when he's on his game, and painful to watch when he's not.

When I think of Glencross I recall the times I've seen him reach 3 feet above his head to swing at a puck in the offensive zone. There are times when it's wise to attempt a high stick of the puck, like the puck is being flipped over you by the other team for an odd-man rush, or infront of your own net where if it lands it could be a scoring opportunity (a glove attempt is still the wiser option here). Offensive zone is not one of those times.

Along with his drop pass to unsuspecting players, these speak to his low hockey IQ and showboating tendencies which I don't think really mesh with the identity the Flames are trying to build.

Crazy how a couple seasons ago their was a discussion on fans between him or Gio to take over the captaincy. Clearly the right choice was made.

All this said, he did sign for less than market value to stay here last time, and has remained a competitor for the Flames during the lean years, including some memorable stretches where he looks like an all star.

I will applaud and thank him for his service, especially is he's returning a young prospect or draft pick on deadline day.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

With the LW depth on the team, I hope Glencross goes to free agency (or better yet accepts a trade before the deadline).

What is this depth you speak of?

You've got Gaudreau, Raymond, Glencross, and Bollig. I've seen some of our younger players show they are bette than Bollig, but that's it so far. We have kids pushing for spots, but let them push. You give up Glencross then it's a Oilers situation which the prospects don't need to earn their ice-time from established veterans. It weakens roster competition and unless he's replaced by Ferland shrinks an already small team.

--

If you checked my post history, I'd say 80% of my Glencross related posts are ragging on him, but he's valuable. There is a dimension to his game we won't find so easy to replace as others think.

With Jones, don't expect him to move until next season, partially for contract reasons and partially for roster competition.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

What is this depth you speak of?

You've got Gaudreau, Raymond, Glencross, and Bollig. I've seen some of our younger players show they are bette than Bollig, but that's it so far. We have kids pushing for spots, but let them push. You give up Glencross then it's a Oilers situation which the prospects don't need to earn their ice-time from established veterans. .

This assumes Glencross is willing to stay at the price the Flames offer. This is not a matter of the Flames "keeping" him as opposed to trading him. It's a three part decision: trading him (if he waives his NTC) versus resigning at what I believe will be a high price and term versus letting him walk for free.

And IMO the depth includes the prospects. So on wing, the guys you mentioned plus the kids on the roster now, plus Poirier, Klimchuk, etc.

If you believe those kids need further pushing from a vet, there may be cheaper free agent options, or younger and better ones at the same price.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I'm not going to look up every players stats on that list, but there are a lot younger, bigger and more skilled guys on that list than Glencross.

That's quite the argument you made there. Care to back it up with anything tangible other than "I say so"?

PPG this year, just for starters
Curtis Glencross: 0.56 (on par with his career average)
Benoit Pouliot: 0.40
Bryan Bickell: 0.38
Drew Stafford: 0.52
Jussi Jokinen: 0.57
Ales Hemsky: 0.26
Nikolai Kulemin: 0.50
Milan Michalek: 0.32
David Jones: 0.42
P.A. Parenteau: 0.42
Chris Stewart: 0.17
TJ Oshie: 0.35
David Perron: 0.48

Care to discuss any other attributes? Glencross is arguably a better defensive player than almost anyone on this list. Leadership? Experience?

I guess Glencross haters gonna hate.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

That's quite the argument you made there. Care to back it up with anything tangible other than "I say so"?

PPG this year, just for starters
Curtis Glencross: 0.56 (on par with his career average)
Benoit Pouliot: 0.40
Bryan Bickell: 0.38
Drew Stafford: 0.52
Jussi Jokinen: 0.57
Ales Hemsky: 0.26
Nikolai Kulemin: 0.50
Milan Michalek: 0.32
David Jones: 0.42
P.A. Parenteau: 0.42
Chris Stewart: 0.17
TJ Oshie: 0.35
David Perron: 0.48

Care to discuss any other attributes? Glencross is arguably a better defensive player than almost anyone on this list. Leadership? Experience?

I guess Glencross haters gonna hate.

Nope. Too tired...

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I'm not going to look up every players stats on that list, but there are a lot younger, bigger and more skilled guys on that list than Glencross.

Can't even say which ones you would take over Glencross?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

What is this depth you speak of?

You've got Gaudreau, Raymond, Glencross, and Bollig. I've seen some of our younger players show they are bette than Bollig, but that's it so far. We have kids pushing for spots, but let them push. You give up Glencross then it's a Oilers situation which the prospects don't need to earn their ice-time from established veterans. It weakens roster competition and unless he's replaced by Ferland shrinks an already small team.

--

If you checked my post history, I'd say 80% of my Glencross related posts are ragging on him, but he's valuable. There is a dimension to his game we won't find so easy to replace as others think.

With Jones, don't expect him to move until next season, partially for contract reasons and partially for roster competition.

Is there anyone in the world who would rather have Raymond (3.1M for the next 2 years) on their team instead of Glencross?


Do you think that Hartley is going to tap Raymond and send him out against the other teams big players in the 3rd period of a 1-goal flames lead?


Because of Gaudreau and Hudler on the Flames roster chances are that Glencross also get put on ahead of Raymond late in the 3rd with the Flames trailing by 1.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

What is this depth you speak of?

You've got Gaudreau, Raymond, Glencross, and Bollig. I've seen some of our younger players show they are bette than Bollig, but that's it so far. We have kids pushing for spots, but let them push. You give up Glencross then it's a Oilers situation which the prospects don't need to earn their ice-time from established veterans. It weakens roster competition and unless he's replaced by Ferland shrinks an already small team.

--

If you checked my post history, I'd say 80% of my Glencross related posts are ragging on him, but he's valuable. There is a dimension to his game we won't find so easy to replace as others think.

With Jones, don't expect him to move until next season, partially for contract reasons and partially for roster competition.

The depth I was referring to is LW over RW. If we're going to chase two similar UFA's I'd rather it be a RW over LW (Glencross). Glencross already stated that he's going for max money, I'd rather see it spent elseware.

As far as LW goes.

http://capgeek.com/flames/depth-chart/

Additionally, every left handed Center we have playing RW, could transition just as easily (if not easier) to LW as well.

.