Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

One has to wonder if taxpayers funded his trip to Vancouver or he actually used his own money. My guess is that the city forked over the money.

Maybe the Flames/Stamps paid for the trip, in exchange for free land.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Fire

Maybe the Flames/Stamps paid for the trip, in exchange for free land.

Probably not,great optics when they are looking for a rink and handout.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

One has to wonder if taxpayers funded his trip to Vancouver or he actually used his own money. My guess is that the city forked over the money.

Yup. On us.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by #-3

Of course Nenshi is not a stamps fan, I'd be willing to bet the guy doesn't know how many points you get for a field goal.

Don't you remember his face on the billboards for the Stamps' "Get you Game Face On" marketing campaign from 2011? He also donated money to the Food Back after the Stamps lost in 2012. He also supports Kidsport Calgary with the Stampeders.

I'd wager to say he's a genuine fan of the team.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by #-3

Of course Nenshi is not a stamps fan, I'd be willing to bet the guy doesn't know how many points you get for a field goal.

But of course he is gonna show up and support what essentially equates to a civic pride even, he's the mayor.

Yes Nenshi is taking a absolute hard line. I don't know what the final result will be, but this article and the statements from the city are obvious posturing. In the same way the Flames are posturing when they say they are still considering 3 or 4 locations 5 years into the inquiry phase of this project they know where they want to go.

The unfortunate result of all of this posturing is us laymen might not know what the final result will be until after construction has already started.

He's a big football fan. As a student at U of C, he was one of the few that actually showed up to watch Dinos games. He's also a big Stamps fan - goes to games when he can and was very excited about the victory.

His travel to the Grey Cup was out of his office travel budget, but I'd also add that he's an extremely frugal traveller, almost to the point of absurdity.

[Joborule]

Why Nenshi existence of fandom, or travel expense is of any importance to some is dumb.

[1stLand]

Nenshi can do whatever he wants! He's Nenshi!
leave him alone.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by #-3

Of course Nenshi is not a stamps fan, I'd be willing to bet the guy doesn't know how many points you get for a field goal.

Actually I think he's a big football fan in general. From what I hear he was a regular at U of C Dino games even after graduating and before politics.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

Nenshi can do whatever he wants! He's Nenshi!
leave him alone.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No I wasn't assembling a straw man, I was replying to posters who made an extreme (and inaccurate) claim. You however, are creating a straw man by attempting to impose parameters on this discussion that don't yet exist.

I'm reasonably sure the discussion exists, because we are speaking in it.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Um, no.

I'm also reasonably sure that you don't want to speculate because your position - that the City should be looking at "helping" the Flames with the arena - relies on a completely specious counter-factual of there somehow being a downside to not committing public funds. So, when pressed to detail exactly what might happen, you'd rather say nothing and continue to try to obfuscate.

Is this not you?

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I wasn't suggesting they should move it out of town. I was suggesting that the option of having alternatives should be enough to wake city hall up.

(emphasis added)

Wake city hall up? They haven't received any proposal yet, so what are they "waking up" to? When you speak of "alternatives", are you not referring to the Flames putting pressure on the City by pretending they will move somewhere else - be that Balzac or Seattle - to pry forth some dollars? Is this not the discussion you say doesn't exit, that is, whether or not it is justified to spend taxpayer money subsidizing a business that needs no subsidization?

All your talk about the value of the franchise to the city IS a straw man, as you are implicitly claiming that somehow we are in peril of losing the franchise should the City not step up with cash or land or some other kind of preferential treatment. This is ridiculous. The Flames are, apparently, 7th in the league in revenues. They are not going to jeopardize that over a spat with City Hall.

These are businessmen, not jilted teenagers - they won't take their toys and go home if they don't get what they want, they will look at other ways of spending someone else's money (like financing paid for by upping ticket prices) to build their arena. If City Hall wants in on building something for sports, let's spend that money on new indoor soccer facilities or community rinks, not a palace where I can sit for 2 or 3 hours drinking beer.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by jammies

If City Hall wants in on building something for sports, let's spend that money on new indoor soccer facilities or community rinks, not a palace where I can sit for 2 or 3 hours drinking beer.

If only it worked like that.

The NFL, a non-profit organization no less, is subsidized by the american tax payer to the tune of $1 billion/year for stadium creation.

Time and time again billionaire owners get their stadiums paid for so they can make more money. The precedent has been set - it's only a matter of time.

[MacDaddy77]

Jammies, by supporting the new area the city would also be indirectly supporting building new arenas.

The flames make more money which in turn allows the flames foundation more money to build and support community rinks. everybody wins

[Kjesse]

Nenshi and Council just need to put the Flames' own mantra to them:

"Always Earned, Never Given"

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by kevman

If only it worked like that.

The NFL, a non-profit organization no less, is subsidized by the american tax payer to the tune of $1 billion/year for stadium creation.

Time and time again billionaire owners get their stadiums paid for so they can make more money. The precedent has been set - it's only a matter of time.

The NHL is a non-profit organization so why aren't they contributing funds from their coffers in order for teams to build new rinks? If they invested some funds into building bigger and better rinks maybe they could attract larger crowds and grow their ticket sales revenue.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by kevman

If only it worked like that.

The NFL, a non-profit organization no less, is subsidized by the american tax payer to the tune of $1 billion/year for stadium creation.

Time and time again billionaire owners get their stadiums paid for so they can make more money. The precedent has been set - it's only a matter of time.

The NFL has the hammer in Los Angeles, a viable, real, believable threat to move a franchise. The NHL has no such leverage for moving a team, let alone a Canadian team. Moving out of a Canadian market automatically devalues a franchise immensely and takes revenue out of the NHL's coffers. Moving to Los Angeles for a NFL team drastically increases its value and makes it more money. Not quite the same.

That's why the general theory is the NFL doesn't actually want a team in LA because then they lose future leverage to force teams to build new stadiums with public money. Once a team is in LA the threat is gone and all that's left is San Antonio (big whoop). The Flames have little to no leverage at all to ask for public money for an arena. It'll be very surprising and disappointing if they get any for the building.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

Jammies, by supporting the new area the city would also be indirectly supporting building new arenas.

The flames make more money which in turn allows the flames foundation more money to build and support community rinks. everybody wins

Trickle-down economics as applied to arenas? Now I've heard everything - it never has worked and it never will. While the Flames Foundation is a worthy endeavour, I don't think the Flames are looking to get $100 million (as an example) so they can afford to give away $200 million later. Or if they are, they might as well just spend $100 million and save all the paperwork.

Unless you're being sarcastic...

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The NFL has the hammer in Los Angeles, a viable, real, believable threat to move a franchise. The NHL has no such leverage for moving a team, let alone a Canadian team. Moving out of a Canadian market automatically devalues a franchise immensely and takes revenue out of the NHL's coffers. Moving to Los Angeles for a NFL team drastically increases its value and makes it more money. Not quite the same.

That's why the general theory is the NFL doesn't actually want a team in LA because then they lose future leverage to force teams to build new stadiums with public money. Once a team is in LA the threat is gone and all that's left is San Antonio (big whoop). The Flames have little to no leverage at all to ask for public money for an arena. It'll be very surprising and disappointing if they get any for the building.

Funny, we just had the NFL LA conversation at work and were of the opinion that the NFL would move to LA if only LA would build them a stadium...

For the record I'm in the "I don't want to see a dime of public money go to the new stadium" camp. I just don't believe that in the end that's how it's going to work out.

Hell, as a season ticket holder I'm in the "why do we even need a new stadium?" camp. But that's an argument that REALLY gets people upset for some reason...

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Nenshi and Council just need to put the Flames' own mantra to them:

"Always Earned, Never Given"

The Flames have been a great asset for the city for over 30 years. So free arena?

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Fire

The Flames have been a great asset for the city for over 30 years. So free arena?

The city has been a great asset to the Flames for over 30 years, its residents being a key reason the value of the franchise has risen to over $400 million.

[Bill Bumface]

This is a complicated issue, and I don't think I can decide if I want there to be public funding or not, until I have one more piece of critical data:

Is Dianne Colley-Urquhart a Roughnecks fan?