Will Jones and Glencross be Flames next season?

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

I would consider Glencross to be a key transition veteran in this process, similar to Hudler. They may not be around when this team starts competing for a cup, but they are essential to play the tough minutes and provide veteran mentorship. I am torn on whether or not to resign Glencross because our left wing is so log jammed. Is he a true top line winger? Probably 2nd/3rd liner. I would be happy to give him a 2 or 3 year deal (without a NTC) at $5 million. We have the cap to use for those years without a lot of key RFAs coming up any time soon.

Jones is a guy that will likely play out his contract, and maybe get moved at next year's trade deadline. There's a couple reasons for this: 1) We have so few natural RWers in the organization, and especially few players with his size and style of game, 2) his contract is likely prohibitive for many teams to take it on, and 3) he's often injured, so it doesn't prohibit a prospect who is nearly NHL ready getting some games at the NHL to test themselves (Poirier).

The OP mentions our depth chart, but you have to remember that a lot of those guys won't ever become NHL regulars. The following list is where I think each of those prospects eventually plays in the NHL:

Gaudreau-Bennett-X
Granlund/Baertschi(big "if" on Baertschi)-X-Poirier
Klimchuk/Ferland-Arnold/Jooris-X
Hanowski/Agostino-Knight-Smith/Carroll

I think that top line RW gets filled by Hudler unless we find a better option through free agency.

Obviously the 2nd line center will be filled by Monahan.

You can slot Jones in that 3rd line slot until we find a suitable prospect or UFA replacement.

But looking at those left wingers (I think Granlund will eventually be moved to the wing) is Glencross better than any of them long term? I think Klimchuk is at least 2 years away after this season from being a regular, not that he's guaranteed to be an NHLer just yet. Bouma has the 4th line left wing sewn up for awhile. I think you can sign Glencross to a 2 year deal and put him on that 3rd line until Klimchuk is NHL ready. The problem then becomes, would Glencross stay on such a short term deal?

What it boils down to is the old adage: If you have time to make a decision, use it. I would like to revisit this conversation near the trade deadline, but for now they're both valuable pieces to the team and worth keeping around. If we end up losing Glencross to UFA, so be it. He doesn't owe us anything at this point.

Is Backlund not in your plans?

[Erick Estrada]

IMO Jones will be because really there aren't a lot of options with his contract. I don't believe Glencross will but it's hard to get a read on Treliving at this point and how he's going to do business as well as ownership's willingness to spend money with the dollar dropping.

Glencross's current contract is about as high as I would go considering he's going to decline and it sounds like he's looking for a raise which isn't an ideal mix for a young rebuilding team. When you consider Stajan's contract I don't know if it's prudent to commit more long term money to another aging veteran player given that in a few years some of these young players will be getting raises from their entry level deals.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Not the whole "we need a first line replacement" argument again.... I will say that I don't think the Flames have an actual line structure in that one specific line is the first line as opposed to the next line. I'd argue that if that were the case, Johnny and Hudler are our first line wingers.

I will openly say that I don't want Glencross or Jones back but I could see both of them being back for a few more years still. And for people saying that we have to have them back or we wouldn't be as good....did you say the same thing about Cammy not being back because I think we're doing pretty darn good without him.

I'm just happy the decision isn't up to the fans because they're too emotional about it. When you have guys in charge who care more about a player then they do about the team, you get a result like the oilers.

No one has been able to refute my thinking on the subject so if you have a real answer, I'd like to hear it.

Just look at the ice times and you can see that we have a first line and if you watch you will see that 5 on 5 that line is out against the other team's top line more often than not.

It would be great if Glencross and Jones were relegated to the third line but that hasn't happened.

Oh yeah, it has nothing to do with emotions and yeah I wasn't wanting Cammallari back. We have enough small players to fill his spot.

I'll be the first to say bye to any player that is no longer producing in some way. I see McGrattan not long for the Flames roster.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Glencross is one of the only players on this team that still finishes checks.

I would bring him back on a 3 year, $10M contract.

[Matty81]

Glencross likely should be gone. I don't dislike him but he's 32, has been frequently injured in the last few years, is making noise about wanting a big money deal and there are a ton of left shot prospects who are close. Wouldn't go more than 2 years on a contract with him, maybe stretch to 3 if he takes significantly less AAV.

Somebody will give him 4 I bet and the flames would be stupid to do that. He's already one of the poorer skaters up front, he just does not keep his legs moving all shift and imagining him at 36 making 4.5 mil... Not pretty when you think of the decline most players experience by 36.

[BurningSteel]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

i'm a big Glencross fan and think he is grossly underappreciated by CP.

As a Flames fan, I see tremendous value in his re-signing and taking on the top lines of opposing teams each night. I hope he resigns a 3 year contract.

As a Glencross fan, I hope he moves along because he gets nothing but _hit and abuse around here and he deserves much better.

Oh, Hi Curtis!!

I agree with all you have said the only question is what would you pay yours....him?

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

i'm a big Glencross fan and think he is grossly underappreciated by CP.

As a Flames fan, I see tremendous value in his re-signing and taking on the top lines of opposing teams each night. I hope he resigns a 3 year contract.

As a Glencross fan, I hope he moves along because he gets nothing but _hit and abuse around here and he deserves much better.

I'm a glencross fan also. That said I doubt he cares what some posters write about him on CP.

I don't think he is traded this year. I don't see him waiving if flames have a chance at a playoff spot. I think he walks in the summer. I could see the flames offering him a 3 year $12 million contract. Don't think that will be enough. At the very least I see him getting a 5 year $20 million contract on the open market.

As for Jones, he will be a flames until the final year of his contract.

[Arya Stark]

I don't think we as Flame fans are being realistic about guys having to leave. We have way too many forwards knocking on the door for there not being a bunch of guys having to leave. Stajan, Glencross, Jones, one or two of those guys are the biggest candidates for not being here next season. You could likely add Baertschi to that list too.

It's nothing against those players but that's the hockey business. You can't dress 22 forwards.

[btimbit]

Jones will likely play out his contract, and I'm okay with that. This isn't the same Jones as last year, and we don't really have anyone like him to fill his role. Doesn't get extended imo.

Glencross I'm not sure about. Try to move him at the deadline? Let him walk in the off season? He'll want to re-sign I'm sure, but will Treliving? Personally I'd be fine with a 2 more years max around the 3-4 million area, but more than that just isn't nessasary. The guy takes a lot of crap considering his production, but by that point will we need him?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by saillias

I'm a little worried Glencross values playing in Alberta more than anything and the stupid ****ing Oilers will offer him 5 million a season.

I suppose that is a bit of a concern, but I cannot imagine under any circumstances—even those that feature a massive overpayment—that Glencross would be so persuaded to re-sign with the team that cast him off, and which is presently widely regarded the worst professional sports franchise in North America. If the Oilers had anything that resembled even a modestly optimistic near future, then I could see it. But one must also think that their priorities will still be to find a centre (or two), and a defensemen (or three), and a goalie (or two). They already have $+26 m. committed to six wingers next season. Is there even any room for another big-ticket contract for the position on that roster?

Edmonton is no good.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

I don't think we as Flame fans are being realistic about guys having to leave. We have way too many forwards knocking on the door for there not being a bunch of guys having to leave. Stajan, Glencross, Jones, one or two of those guys are the biggest candidates for not being here next season. You could likely add Baertschi to that list too.

On the other side, I think some fans are unrealistic about the need for substantial depth, and the length of development that will be undertaken by most of the Flames' prospects. We saw it at the beginning of this season: A vocal group of fans were upset by the blockade created by having too many veteran forwards coming out of training camp. But in the end, the ability to plug-and-play from the farm has been essential for this team's success.

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

It's nothing against those players but that's the hockey business. You can't dress 22 forwards.

No. But you can continue to allow prospects to gain experience on the farm, and very gradually insert them into the lineup. This will be the ongoing MO for at least the next three years.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

No one has been able to refute my thinking on the subject so if you have a real answer, I'd like to hear it.

Well Cammy was our first line winger last year and we didn't replace him and we're doing better without him. Refuted!

Just look at the ice times and you can see that we have a first line and if you watch you will see that 5 on 5 that line is out against the other team's top line more often than not.

We have a lot of injuries right now and we have a glut of younger players waiting to make the jump so we may have a replacement in our ranks already. Raymond or Backlund could take Glencross's place for that matter.

It would be great if Glencross and Jones were relegated to the third line but that hasn't happened.

Again, due to injuries we've had to play some players more than others so when everyone is healthy then you'll probably see Glencross and Jones(when healthy) have their ice time cut.

Oh yeah, it has nothing to do with emotions and yeah I wasn't wanting Cammallari back. We have enough small players to fill his spot.

Wasn't saying you in particular but Cammy was our most productive player and we didn't re-sign him and we didn't have a replacement ready. We may have enough small players but we didn't have point producing players lined up to take his spot and we didn't sign a "star" point producing player to fill his spot.

I'll be the first to say bye to any player that is no longer producing in some way. I see McGrattan not long for the Flames roster.

Producing in some way...every player produces in some way. McGrattan has been a great role model for the younger players and some will argue he belongs on the team in some capacity. There are long stretches when both Jones and Glencross are not contributing in positive ways with either injury or inconsistency, does that count?

...

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

No one has been able to refute my thinking on the subject so if you have a real answer, I'd like to hear it.

There were about 20 real answers for you in that thread. Not listening to them doesn't mean that you weren't refuted.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Is Backlund not in your plans?

I don't really know. I like him, but he's probably only a 3rd line center who can add some offense once in a while.

My main concern is his inability to stay healthy, so having a player like that eat up cap and roster space when you have better and more reliable options coming through the system (Jooris and Arnold) then I think you make a trade. Right now I would rather have Jooris since he's shown just as much at a younger and less experienced stage of his career. Arnold might end up being a better 2-way player than either of them long term.

[Parallex]

Jones yes, Glencross no.

We can't keep everybody (or rather we shouldn't keep everybody) and between the LW depth and all the C's who shoot left (and thus more apt to get pushed sideways to LW) something has to give and as a upcoming UFA on the wrong side of 30 that means Glencross is the one to go as everyone he's competing with is either younger or has more positional flexibility. Jones, while apt to hit the shelf, is under contract and aids in meeting the floor and is a right-shooting RW that can play top 6 minutes.

[Blixa]

Question for Glencross is how many years? 2 Years would best and three would be ok, no absolutely no for over 3 years.
If it ain´t Glencross then there would be some other 30+ UFA forward, we need some veteran leadership in forward spot.
We are heavily full in left wing, but you don´t put Johnny against the other team top line at least not for few years.

Next summer UFA left wingers etc. Foligno, Bergenheim, Sodenberg and Beleskey.
http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents/?...L&fa_type_id=2

Jones plays his contract and goes away.

[burn_baby_burn]

Smart cap management would be to let the aging more expensive players walk, and replace them with cheaper less expensive players. Drafting and player development are key.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

I don't really know. I like him, but he's probably only a 3rd line center who can add some offense once in a while.

My main concern is his inability to stay healthy, so having a player like that eat up cap and roster space when you have better and more reliable options coming through the system (Jooris and Arnold) then I think you make a trade. Right now I would rather have Jooris since he's shown just as much at a younger and less experienced stage of his career. Arnold might end up being a better 2-way player than either of them long term.

Speaking of Bill Arnold, he is starting to come on now that he has acclimated to the pro game. Three points in his last three, and 5+5 in 12 games in November.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Smart cap management would be to let the aging more expensive players walk, and replace them with cheaper less expensive players. Drafting and player development are key.

Agreed. But Flames management appear to be exercising great patience in seeing this process move forward. I'm sure there is just such a plan in place, only I expect that their timetable is longer than most fans for these transitions to occur.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Lets see, Glencross our first line LW and Jones our first line RW should be dumped? The only way this should happen is if we have players ready to replace them and so far no one has taken their jobs.

I'd argue that the 2 players who could take their jobs have been injured for a good portion of the season in Raymond and Colborne.

I don't hate Glencross, but I'd like to see him gone. For me, its the same argument as Cammaleri. Good guy in the room, under appreciated a bit by fans, production pretty good. But I think he's replaceable and I don't think we'll miss him. Hudler, Raymond, Gio, Engelland, Wideman, Stajan. We have enough vets. As for his roster spot, Gaudreau, Hudler, Raymond and Colborne can be the primary top 2 line wingers. Then you potentially add Jooris, Ferland and maybe Sven as depth we already have. Then you potentially consider some of the prospects having an amazing training camp like Jooris and Granlund did and earning roster spots. Poirer, Bennett, Hanowski etc. Then you consider that we can add another proven NHLer in the off season through the free agency market.

I wouldn't be disappointed to see him back, but I do think we should either look to trade him at the deadline(depending on our league position) or keep him and let him walk in the summer.