Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[The Familia]

The sports facilities in Calgary are some of the worst in the entire country (perhaps Montreal a close second). We have an aging arena, a stadium that is far past its expiry date, a decrepit baseball stadium, and no fieldhouse. Other than the new Winsport complex and some of the C.O.P./Olympic facilities (which themselves are aging) Calgary is truly lacking in top level facilities.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

This would be different because it's private sector.

Let me be clear I'm playing devil's advocate here but given the signals coming from the city are pretty clear the majority of council aren't in favour of providing land (and land is something the Tsuu T'ina have in spades and might well donate to a partnership). It seems the that the City doesn't consider the Flames to be a significant revenue generator for the area, so why not explore other options that would keep the Flames 'in' Calgary?

An arena/stadium/casino/night club/hotel district could be quite the revenue generator for the Flames and their First Nations partner (not it the sports teams obviously). It's no less appealing than Firepark and better than something out in the suburbs.

If nothing else, it might result in the City viewing the project in a different light.

Yeah, the Flames don't have to threaten relocation. If the city doesn't want to play ball, the threat of moving outside the city limits to Tsuu T'ina land, or Balzac, or wherever should be enough of a reminder that the facility is in fact a huge revenue driver for them, and something that improves the city in many ways.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by jammies

The Saddledome was built for the Olympics, so the Flames have already reaped the benefits of someone else's money going to build a facility for them once.

"Ah, but the revenue opportunities are much greater with our own building!" they say. Well then - if there's a business case that long-term the club will make more money with their own arena complex, then they don't need public money, do they? If there isn't such a business case, then what would be the point of construction at all?

It'd be different if the Saddledome was falling apart (like McMahon) and some kind of new facility MUST be built. However, there is no reason the Flames couldn't stay at the Saddledome for another 25 years, if your main concern is "we need a place to seat 18 000+ people to watch a hockey team" and not "the hockey team owning a new arena increases profit and value for that team immensely."
t.

Agreed. The flames are profitable in the saddledome, and the saddledome still works fine. I'd be happy to see the flames build a brand new shiny arena with their own money. But in no way should taxpayers be on the hook for helping the flames make even more money when our current arena is sufficient and the flames are making money.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, the Flames don't have to threaten relocation. If the city doesn't want to play ball, the threat of moving outside the city limits to Tsuu T'ina land, or Balzac, or wherever should be enough of a reminder that the facility is in fact a huge revenue driver for them, and something that improves the city in many ways.

This is not a good idea from a business POV. We've seen how terrible parasite based arenas fare all around north america. Florida, Phoenix, Ottawa.

Hopefully the flames owners have learned a thing or two from Melnyk.

[Clever_Iggy]

A stadium outside of the downtown-area (Balzac, Tsuu T'ina, etc) would reduce the number of games I got to from the high teens/low 20s to zero. That would be such a headache logistically that I'd rather just watch from home or a pub.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, the Flames don't have to threaten relocation. If the city doesn't want to play ball, the threat of moving outside the city limits to Tsuu T'ina land, or Balzac, or wherever should be enough of a reminder that the facility is in fact a huge revenue driver for them, and something that improves the city in many ways.

And if the Flames want a horribly inaccessible arena that drives attendance down and fails to attract other events because it's poorly located, they can build their arena outside the city and let some other taxpayers take the hit, though they'll refuse to pay for it too.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

A stadium outside of the downtown-area (Balzac, Tsuu T'ina, etc) would reduce the number of games I got to from the high teens/low 20s to zero. That would be such a headache logistically that I'd rather just watch from home or a pub.

You are not alone. This would have a significant effect on attendance and profit.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

This would be different because it's private sector.

[Let me be clear I'm playing devil's advocate here but given the signals coming from the city are pretty clear the majority of council aren't in favour of providing land (and land is something the Tsuu T'ina have in spades and might well donate to a partnership). It seems the that the City doesn't consider the Flames to be a significant revenue generator for the area, so why not explore other options that would keep the Flames 'in' Calgary?

An arena/stadium/casino/night club/hotel district could be quite the revenue generator for the Flames and their First Nations partner (not it the sports teams obviously). It's no less appealing than Firepark and better than something out in the suburbs.

If nothing else, it might result in the City viewing the project in a different light.

Read the article.

Originally Posted by getbak

Here's the story from the Herald: http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...e-flames-arena

Majority of them, have send the city could possibly give land. The Flames have said they want to utilize West Downtown, where the CoC owns land that could accommodate the new facility.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

This is not a good idea from a business POV. We've seen how terrible parasite based arenas fare all around north america. Florida, Phoenix, Ottawa.

Hopefully the flames owners have learned a thing or two from Melnyk.

Melnyk wasn't at the helm when the Canadian Tire Centre was built in Kanata. Rod Bryden is the name you are looking for.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Melnyk wasn't at the helm when the Canadian Tire Centre was built in Kanata. Rod Bryden is the name you are looking for.

You're right. I was more alluding to the fact that Melnyk has been crying poor for years about attendance and low revenue. Which the arena location plays a significant factor.

[calgarygeologist]

Has anyone been to Nationwide Arena in Columbus? Apparently, it is one of the best venues and districts in sports.

[Muta]

People have to keep in mind that any location for the new arena / stadium has to be immediately in, or next, to downtown. Companies own suites / private boxes, and routinely take clients to games. Putting the facility any further than a hop, skip and a jump away will simply never be allowed by Flames ownership. As well, tourists simply will not go out of their way to the Foothills McMahon location, the Firepark area or the Railtown location if it's cold outside. Not going to happen.

You have to make the location literally within walking distance in order to maximize corporate investment, attendance numbers and general ticket sales. It has to be on a rail line, and the more indoors you make it (as this does matter during the winter), the more successful your product is going to be.

This is one of the reasons why the aforementioned locations (and now the Tsuu Tsina Nation idea) would never fully work. At the end of the day, it's about catering to corporate interests and maximizing access to the general public.

[GioforPM]

In fairness, at the time, having arenas in outlying areas on acres of cheap land was what the "smart" guys were advocating everywhere. it wasn't a whim of the Ottawa owners. Plus, Kanata was supposedly going to explode with tech businesses.

How wrong they were.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Muta

People have to keep in mind that any location for the new arena / stadium has to be immediately in, or next, to downtown. Companies own suites / private boxes, and routinely take clients to games. Putting the facility any further than a hop, skip and a jump away will simply never be allowed by Flames ownership. As well, tourists and simply will not go out of their way to the U of C campus the Firepark area or the Railtown location if it's cold outside. Not going to happen.

You have to make the location literally within walking distance in order to maximize corporate investment, attendance numbers and general ticket sales. It has to be on a rail line, and the more indoors you make it (as this does matter during the winter), the more successful your product is going to be.

This is one of the reasons why the aforementioned locations (and now the Tsuu Tsina Nation idea) would never fully work. At the end of the day, it's about catering to corporate interests and maximizing access to the general public.

The Tsuu Tina reserve isn't all that far, but it's not walking distance all right. Plus, putting stuff on reserve land is a huge contractual headache. My law firm worked on financing for the casino, and there's a level or two of complexity and difficulty added on that doesn't exist off of the reserve. Plus you have the feds involved.

[Erick Estrada]

Such a polarizing topic.

[MacDaddy77]

the stampede board controlling such a vast amount of land really hinders where this/these arenas can be built.

What about the safeway distrubution area just off Macleod and 39th?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Such a polarizing topic.

Its a lot of money.

[Da_Chief]

Give the land and let them fund the rest. Private companies should be help out. Get it done already.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Such a polarizing topic.

I don't think it's as polarizing as you think. If you held a poll amongst CP members, I would guess that the vast majority of people on here support a new arena, but lean towards minimal public funds to pay for it.

It could actually be a very seamless process for the Flames. All they need to do is buy some land, hire an architect and a construction company, follow the development procedures that everyone else has to, and build the damn thing. The only reason it's complicated, is because they don't want to pay for it. But it's not like they need our or the City's blessing to go ahead!

[BigFlameDog]

wrong thread.