Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[Finger Cookin]

They operate the Flames Foundation For Life, which is the context of that $32 million.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by getbak

Here's the story from the Herald: http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...e-flames-arena

Sorry if it has been said previously, but this story seems to be the Herald just reading this thread, adding a few non committal quotes, and publishing it.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

They operate the Flames Foundation For Life, which is the context of that $32 million.

This is what the Foundation gave last year:

http://flames.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=68469

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

They operate the Flames Foundation For Life, which is the context of that $32 million.

I should have been more clear that I was saying they do not operate the Calgary Flames hockey club as a nonprofit.

Of course their charitable work is commendable. But it's not relevant to a discussion about economic factors related to a new arena.

[Finger Cookin]

I just think characterizing them as cackling mustache twirling tycoons of industry is just as disingenuous.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I just think characterizing them as cackling mustache twirling tycoons of industry is just as disingenuous.

Pretty sure this is a photograph.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I do know over $32 million has been donated to charity from the hockey club since 1983.

Which is nice. But I hope proponents of public funding for the arena don't use that as an argument for the City putting $100 million + towards the arena. If that were the case, I'd rather the City take on $2 mil a year in charitable donations on behalf of the Flames and tell the owners to come up with the dough for the arena themselves.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

And I'm for infrastructure to support a new arena. Just don't pay for the arena. Did the city pay for the Bow? Of course not, and there would have been massive outrage had they done so. Add the +15s and all the other crap? By all means go for it.

Unless it's changed, +15s are not paid for by the city. Instead, developers who build them get a density bonus.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Really? Because 2 of the 3 levels of government have already said no funding to this types of projects. Any provincial funding would raise major criticism from Edmonton as they didn't get any.

The city used funds given to it by the province but no direct money came from the province. This money that Calgary also received but used to fund other things.

Edmonton didn't get any?????? Took me about 8 seconds to google this.....

http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...rk_Details.pdf

I said there will some combination of funding/tax relief/land donation/infrastructure..and if there is even an interest free or ultra low interest loan that is government help.

A project that is this big will have some form of the above and I honestly don't care what they are saying now.

"No direct money" is putting lipstick on a pig.....I'm sorry but if people actually think no tax dollars are going into this they are fooling themselves.

Nenshi and his crew are simply working on their creative math to sell it to us like the sold it in Edmonton.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

Nenshi and his crew are simply working on their creative math to sell it to us like the sold it in Edmonton.

They may be... but there was no pretence about public money in Edmonton.They tried to dress it up some (by saying Katz group is responsible for 280+ million) when in reality Katz ponies up less than 25 million of his money - but everyone knew and knows the taxpayer is bent over the Rx counter at Rexall paying for this one.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Which is nice. But I hope proponents of public funding for the arena don't use that as an argument for the City putting $100 million + towards the arena. If that were the case, I'd rather the City take on $2 mil a year in charitable donations on behalf of the Flames and tell the owners to come up with the dough for the arena themselves.

32 Million is a heck of a lot cheaper than 50, 100 or even 400 million dollars.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by shutout

Not sure why the issue has to be so black and white. There have to be "funding" scenarios that wok for both sides. My issue with the city based on the article is that Nenshi comes across as a jerk and is not interested in having any type of relationship with the Flames group. Like it or not there is an economic benefit and a social benefit to the citizens of the city to having these facilities for concerts, events, sport teams.

Why does the land have to be given away? Why can it not be leased?

If the city provided the land in the West Village on a 50-75 year lease they would not be giving anything away. Work out the particulars around property taxes and lease payments and that is what the city provides.

Not unreasonable for a project like this to be given property tax breaks for the first five years. Three years no property taxes and an escalating increase of 20% over the next five years. The lease payments for the land can be based on the usage of the facilities. Add $10 to each ticket for each event depending upon the number of concerts is about $15M.

Plus if the developed area is expected to have restaurants and bars in the area than you charge a percentage surcharge on all tabs that goes to the city. Make it a user tax for those that are going to use the facilities.

If you want to reduce the infrastructure requirements that the city needs to pay out you make sure that the development is only allowed to have a parkade that has one way in and one way out onto 9th Ave and that it has a maximum capacity of 5000 vehicles. Everybody else needs to take transit, walk, or take a cab. Because it is so close to downtown there are lots of parking opportunities and cab rides are $5. The city can also get a percentage of the parking rates that are charged for the events, along with a percentage of the parking rates that will be charged for the daily parking permits sold.

No city handouts. No valuable land given away. Make people like Muta or myself pay for the facilities that we want and need in the city. If you never use them, then there is nothing out of your pocket for them. But there needs to be some sort of partnership in a project such as this. Refusing to work with the Flames is just ignorant.

Maybe the City could get paid out twice on this land. How long are stadiums good for these days? 25 years? Since the City is happily watching the East Village redevelop right now, as well as other areas of the city filling out, leasing the West Village to the Flames for 25 years would be a good way to "keep" that land, with huge future potential. Imagine what condos will go for on that plot in the 2040s.

[firecenter]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

The Arena should be built in Balzac as an Arena District with a new stadium, casino, hotels, Condos and a Formula 1 Raceway. We can change Balzac's name to "Arena Towne"

The Flames can change their name to the "Alberta Flames" and the team can make money to pay for the Arena with all the new merchandise sales that stem from the "Atlanta Flames, Flaming A".

The City will extend an LRT Line to the Arena eventually.

Lets build the concourse extra wide and tall, so we can hang all the high school hockey sweaters from the area on the wall, and still have enough space for a full wendys and subway. Give the fans what they want!

[1stLand]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Maybe the City could get paid out twice on this land. How long are stadiums good for these days? 25 years? Since the City is happily watching the East Village redevelop right now, as well as other areas of the city filling out, leasing the West Village to the Flames for 25 years would be a good way to "keep" that land, with huge future potential. Imagine what condos will go for on that plot in the 2040s.

You raise a good point man. Hockey Arena's should last more than 25 or 30 years.
The saddledome was barely 20 years old and they already started talking about replacing it.

I just hope they build a Spectacular Arena that will last 100 years and become a cultural icon like Maple Leaf Gardens or the Montreal Forum (RIP).

No use playing it safe and building an average Arena. Especially considering it always takes a decade with bureaucratic red tape before shovels hit the ground.

[Mr.Coffee]

this is getting pretty tiring as a fan. Why do we have to have the super duper fancy mega expensive complex? Because the Flames bought the Stamps and so need to increase their equity in that business by a substantial margin too?

The Flames have increased season ticket prices every year for the last 10 years. They have made $231MM in equity in the last 3 years. They stand to make even more money by inputting luxury boxes. If public funding is used here, I hope it isn't a lot and the city stands firm, I think the city has good negotiating leverage given it's a wealthy Canadian market and the threat of moving is extremely low. Public money could be better used in different areas, and not increasing our taxes like they plan on doing over the next few years. If this goes through do our property taxes go up 8% instead of 4 to pay for this BS?

Why the fancy schmancy building again?

Timing seems poor. And is taking forever. This is like the kid in the park that keeps telling everyone he has a secret but won't tell anyone. Like shut up about it or announce it KK. Why go to the papers at this stage? So ridiculous... look at when this thread started.

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I just think characterizing them as cackling mustache twirling tycoons of industry is just as disingenuous.

That's a complete mischaracterization of what I said. Pointing out that the Calgary Sports and Entertainment corporation operates a private building and its owners are in the business of generating profits ≠ describing them as cackling mustache twirling tycoons of industry. Highlighting the operating model of the CSE is relevant and keeps the debate on course -- we need to maintain a sober understanding of the nature of what the CSE is, what its new building will be, and how both things relate to the public interest. Marshalling in irrelevant information to point out that they are really great guys is the quickest way to derail what is a very important debate.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

You raise a good point man. Hockey Arena's should last more than 25 or 30 years.
The saddledome was barely 20 years old and they already started talking about replacing it.

I just hope they build a Spectacular Arena that will last 100 years and become a cultural icon like Maple Leaf Gardens or the Montreal Forum (RIP).

It's all about the changing economics (and demographics) of the sports business. You can't build an arena for 20,000 middle-class fans anymore. It's all about the luxury boxes and the high-end food and drink.

The way things are trending, the arena that would replace the planned arena in 25 years will be built to accommodate 1,000 clients who will each have their own wet room, fully-wired smart system, sommelier, and itamae of sushi.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by liamenator

That's a complete mischaracterization of what I said. Pointing out that the Calgary Sports and Entertainment corporation operates a private building and its owners are in the business of generating profits ≠ describing them as cackling mustache twirling tycoons of industry.

Then I apologize. It seemed you were trying to suggest that the owners of the Flames were using the profits from the team to line their pockets, and that they would also loot city hall, the province, and anyone else they could to build the new arena to further line their pockets. Since that wasn't your suggestion, I apologize for moving the discussion off course.

[Stay Golden]

“As I mentioned to you during that meeting, we need to understand the reasons why CFLP (Calgary Flames Limited Partnership) believes that Calgary needs a new, publically-funded hockey arena prior to allocating city resources to investigate further,” Nkemdirim wrote to King.

Should we really be surprised that this is Naheed Nenshi's reply via his Chima Nkemdirim back to the Flames, regardless that it is the 2nd oldest arena in the NHL.
I am not shocked that Nenshi's stance is one of no action due to any possible costs to the city and to be stagnant on this issue that has been looming long before he became mayor.
Yes i guess we are to believe Nenshi's office had no idea the Dome is an aged facility.
It is clear Nenshi's strategy is to just play dumb for as long as possible.
As for the the city's contribution to the Flames new much needed facility.
If he has his way this will receive Zero dollars.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

Edmonton didn't get any?????? Took me about 8 seconds to google this.....

http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...rk_Details.pdf

I said there will some combination of funding/tax relief/land donation/infrastructure..and if there is even an interest free or ultra low interest loan that is government help.

A project that is this big will have some form of the above and I honestly don't care what they are saying now.

"No direct money" is putting lipstick on a pig.....I'm sorry but if people actually think no tax dollars are going into this they are fooling themselves.

Nenshi and his crew are simply working on their creative math to sell it to us like the sold it in Edmonton.

Besides huffing and puffing, what gives you such confidence that this will be built with public money?

Saying it will happen is just words. Tell us, why do you think the politics on this will change?

You have council basically unanimous in not providing public money for the project. There is no money coming from the Province. There is no money coming from the federal government.

What makes you think that somehow this will change? Politically, it's a non-starter. Did you read the article? Council members were overwhelmed by constituent opposition to public money to the project. Do you think the politics are going to dramatically reverse? Highly doubtful. The most the city has said is that it will expedite the permitting.

So please, expand on why you think this is such a given.