Notes from Nov 17 Practice - Hiller starts against the Ducks, Jones gametime decision

[codynw]

I was in favour of the Setoguchi signing because it was low risk for a 27 year old ex 30 goal scorer, but my god has he been useless. The guy can't get put on waivers fast enough at this point.

[J epworth]

Really think the only reason Setoguchi is ever put on the powerplay this year is his right handed shot, seems like the Flames do not want to have only LH shots on the powerplay, too easy to predict where the shots are coming from that way. That said, Jooris has shown his release is pretty decent, I would rather have him right now than Setoguchi on the powerplay, unless they don't want him playing both PK and PP yet.

[Fire]

Disappointed it's not Ferland in instead of Setoguchi. Hopefully it's because Hartley believes Ferland isn't ready for action yet and not because he thinks Setoguchi is a better option.

[_Q_]

I think Hartley is trying very hard to get Setoguchi going before they make the decision whether or not to cut him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

Is Ferland good to go? I know he is green, but I would bet he would out-produce Gooch

I think they are being careful, but if he was ready to play, it wouldn't include PP time.

Like I said, Jooris could make a case.

If you switch Glencross and put someone new there, then there's two guys playing in unfamiliar positions, not one. That said, I actually think Glencross doesn't need to be on the PP either.

[dammage79]

RH fwds on the Flames:
Jones (made of glass)
Jooris (not on 1st pp but is on the PP)
Setoguchi.....Veteran.

If anything move Seto down to 2nd PP and move Jooris up. That's about it. I like that they're adamant about having a RH shot on each special teams unit. Too bad it has to be Setoguchi but it is what it is.

I kind of wish they'd go out and bargain hunt another RH RW and end the Setoguchi experiment. I wish also that the Setoguchi experiment worked out.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by codynw

I was in favour of the Setoguchi signing because it was low risk for a 27 year old ex 30 goal scorer, but my god has he been useless. The guy can't get put on waivers fast enough at this point.

He'll be put on there soon enough. As I've mentioned before in another thread, every single Adirondack player called up has outplayed him. Guarantee once we get a couple more bodies from the IR, he should be sent down. It will benefit him, he'll be a veteran in Adirondack and maybe will get more playing time than what he is being given right now.

Is his defense, he looks a bit snake bitten and just can't seem to put up any kind of point production whenever he has played, he's put some effort out there and has had some decent scoring chances. However, we have younger players who have proven themselves that they deserve the spot more than him.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

People need to stop finding ticky tacky things to complain about when it comes to Hartley's coaching. This always earned crying that happens every time a decision gets made that people don't love is so annoying. We are literally talking about PP line ups now and we have people crying about "always earned". For frick sake, this team has stuck to the "always earned mantra" close to 90% of the time. Not sure what more these people want, there are other factors that play into decisions, especially line combos such as chemistry with other line mates and playing style and strengths and position that impact the decisions.

Not to mention, this team is decimated by injuries, the options are getting limited, people need to stop complaining, and besides, Hartley will adjust lines as the game goes on based on who is playing well.

Stop crying about practice PP lines, it's getting ridiculous.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Fire

Disappointed it's not Ferland in instead of Setoguchi. Hopefully it's because Hartley believes Ferland isn't ready for action yet and not because he thinks Setoguchi is a better option.

That doesn't mesh with the MO for this team. Ferland will get his chances on the power play in time, but I would expect it to take 5–10 games or so. Harley has done this now pretty consistently with young players: Gaudreau worked his way slowly into the lineup and onto the power play. Baertschi and Granlund have now been getting short looks, and these are likely to see this increase incrementally but consistently for as long as they establish themselves on the team. Ferland needs to play a few games first.

[devo22]

good to hear that Jones is fit enough to be a game-time decision. Honestly, I expected a "Jones to IR" tweet from the Flames today.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

People need to stop finding ticky tacky things to complain about when it comes to Hartley's coaching. This always earned crying that happens every time a decision gets made that people don't love is so annoying. We are literally talking about PP line ups now and we have people crying about "always earned". For frick sake, this team has stuck to the "always earned mantra" close to 90% of the time. Not sure what more these people want, there are other factors that play into decisions, especially line combos such as chemistry with other line mates and playing style and strengths and position that impact the decisions.

Not to mention, this team is decimated by injuries, the options are getting limited, people need to stop complaining, and besides, Hartley will adjust lines as the game goes on based on who is playing well.

Stop crying about practice PP lines, it's getting ridiculous.

This, plus "earned" may involve a whole bunch of stuff, including effort (which everyone says isn't the issue) and stuff that happens in practice (which I think has a lot bigger bearing than ordinary fans suspect).

[saillias]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I think Hartley is trying very hard to get Setoguchi going before they make the decision whether or not to cut him.

Me too, I mentioned this before that if he fails here these are the last NHL games of his career.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

Really think the only reason Setoguchi is ever put on the powerplay this year is his right handed shot, seems like the Flames do not want to have only LH shots on the powerplay, too easy to predict where the shots are coming from that way. That said, Jooris has shown his release is pretty decent, I would rather have him right now than Setoguchi on the powerplay, unless they don't want him playing both PK and PP yet.

The thing is, what is the point of having a right handed shot on the PP if the guy is never in position to shoot the puck? In 125:50 of icetime, including PP time Seto has taken a whopping 12 shots.

I'm pretty sure if Setoguchi was a Feaster aquisition, Treliving would have put him on waivers by now.

Seto has been outplayed by every call up we have made. He is also being outplayed by every roster player on this team. He is the weakest link by far. His team leading -7 tells you that at a glance. Watching him play confirms it. When guys get healthy he has to be the guy who draws the shortest straw.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

The thing is, what is the point of having a right handed shot on the PP if the guy is never in position to shoot the puck? In 125:50 of icetime, including PP time Seto has taken a whopping 12 shots.

I'm pretty sure if Setoguchi was a Feaster aquisition, Treliving would have put him on waivers by now.

Seto has been outplayed by every call up we have made. He is also being outplayed by every roster player on this team. He is the weakest link by far. His team leading -7 tells you that at a glance. Watching him play confirms it. When guys get healthy he has to be the guy who draws the shortest straw.

Why would the team have put Seto on waivers regardless at this point. The teams injury situation has allowed them to continue to carry Seto and not have to make that decision. Why do it before you have to.

Seto has been in the press box for a lot of games, despite a ridiculous number of forward injuries. Keeping him around has been a blessing for the Flames, allowing them to keep him with the team in case any last second injuries come up in which a call up couldn't get to the game in time, and not have the team have to waste a young player sitting in the press box for that reason when they could be developing his game in the AHL.

Hopefully as injuries come back (and we don't incur new ones) the Flames will be required to make a decision, but to date injuries have meant there is no decision to make on Seto. This has nothing to do with (at least to this point) with trying to make a GM look good or bad, or back up a Treliving versus Feaster decision, it's a simple numbers game.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

People need to stop finding ticky tacky things to complain about when it comes to Hartley's coaching. This always earned crying that happens every time a decision gets made that people don't love is so annoying. We are literally talking about PP line ups now and we have people crying about "always earned". For frick sake, this team has stuck to the "always earned mantra" close to 90% of the time. Not sure what more these people want, there are other factors that play into decisions, especially line combos such as chemistry with other line mates and playing style and strengths and position that impact the decisions.

Not to mention, this team is decimated by injuries, the options are getting limited, people need to stop complaining, and besides, Hartley will adjust lines as the game goes on based on who is playing well.

Stop crying about practice PP lines, it's getting ridiculous.

Well said. This team is 11-6, it should not be anywhere close to 11-6 and 6-11 would have been a good start for most pundits. Not sure how people can complain about Hartley.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

The thing is, what is the point of having a right handed shot on the PP if the guy is never in position to shoot the puck? In 125:50 of icetime, including PP time Seto has taken a whopping 12 shots.

I'm pretty sure if Setoguchi was a Feaster aquisition, Treliving would have put him on waivers by now.

Seto has been outplayed by every call up we have made. He is also being outplayed by every roster player on this team. He is the weakest link by far. His team leading -7 tells you that at a glance. Watching him play confirms it. When guys get healthy he has to be the guy who draws the shortest straw.

The point of the RH shot on the PP is to open up more angles. Even if Seto doesn't get off shots the other team has to adapt and open up C/LW more to compensate. Honestly a RH shot does spread out the PK unit more.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

Is Ferland good to go? I know he is green, but I would bet he would out-produce Gooch

Doesn't look like it otherwise I thought he could have replace David Jones in the lineup. I know Hartley mentioned Ferland is now healthy but he needs some time for practice before he goes back in the lineup.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The point of the RH shot on the PP is to open up more angles. Even if Seto doesn't get off shots the other team has to adapt and open up C/LW more to compensate. Honestly a RH shot does spread out the PK unit more.

Then use Jooris. Someone who has actually managed to score some goals this season.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Why would the team have put Seto on waivers regardless at this point. The teams injury situation has allowed them to continue to carry Seto and not have to make that decision. Why do it before you have to.

Seto has been in the press box for a lot of games, despite a ridiculous number of forward injuries. Keeping him around has been a blessing for the Flames, allowing them to keep him with the team in case any last second injuries come up in which a call up couldn't get to the game in time, and not have the team have to waste a young player sitting in the press box for that reason when they could be developing his game in the AHL.

Hopefully as injuries come back (and we don't incur new ones) the Flames will be required to make a decision, but to date injuries have meant there is no decision to make on Seto. This has nothing to do with (at least to this point) with trying to make a GM look good or bad, or back up a Treliving versus Feaster decision, it's a simple numbers game.

Why do it? Because Setoguchi does not look like an NHL player at this point. He has been fed ice and has done sweet fork all with the opportunity. Why do you think he needs to be here?

Guys will be getting healthy to play soon. There are other options on the farm as well. Hanowski, Arnold, Van Brabant, Knight, Wolf, Agostino. Many of the guys listed played NHL games last year and didn't look out of place. Any of these guys could come up short term until guys start coming back. At the very worst if they did absolutely nothing to help the team they would be as good as Seto. The Flames dont need to be handcuffed to Devin Setoguchi at all. He has had more than a fair shake.

[GioforPM]

Before Sven's virus and subsequent better play, Seto was no worse and arguably better than Sven (not a high bar at that stage). Now he's spent some time off, who's to say he can't improve as well, just like Sven did? And Jooris for that matter?