Theo Fleury: Why Johnny Gaudreau has it easier

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by browna

I thought that was fairly common knowledge, if not explicitly presented as such at the time. The Flames weren't going to say it, and Fleury wasn't going to say it, that's for sure.

Since 2006 he was in the substance abuse program, then never played, and while in that program, couldn't get his pension...so he was stuck in that. His comeback started with the Flames vouching for him a few weeks or so in the preseason, asking Bettman to get him re-instated. As soon as he cleared that hurdle, whether he played an exhibition or got, that pension kicked in.

So, another example of the Flames helping Fleury in his career when he didn't want to seem to help himself (no idea why Fleury didn't try and get re-instated himself in the time since 2006) to restore some dignity as being an active NHL member again, and get his pension.

Fleury spoke to Bettman and got reinstated before trying out for the Flames so I don't think the Flames helped him at all other than giving him a shot. There were other teams interested.

[killer_carlson]

Fleury Story on Sportsnet. He's moving onto a new chapter in his life and trying to create a new identity beyond hockey player. That's tough to do for a lot of guys.

Also, interesting revelation that his mom had substance abuse issues while he was in utero. It made him more susceptable to cocaine in particular.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/t...algary-flames/

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Fleury spoke to Bettman and got reinstated before trying out for the Flames so I don't think the Flames helped him at all other than giving him a shot. There were other teams interested.

It was Sutter who got Bettman to reinstate him.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Any links to this, or is this just you being you.

Not being able to read must be you

[browna]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Fleury spoke to Bettman and got reinstated before trying out for the Flames so I don't think the Flames helped him at all other than giving him a shot. There were other teams interested.

He got reinstated just before Flames camp (Sept 10 2009, according to google) And I think you'd be fooling yourself given that timing, thinking the Flames didn't ask Bettman for a favour in that regard and moving that decision along in the weeks before that.

With (supposed) said interest from other teams, and then given his "historic" exhibition shooutout winner, if there was legit interest elsewhere after he got cut, he (as any player who would've been offered a roster spot somehwere else) would've taken it. Bottom line, the Flames stepped up to help him get back in the league, and the benefits that afforded Theo and Theo alone. The exhibition games were the cherry on top.

Good for him to retire on his own terms and as an active player, but don't discount the Flames required assistance in making it all happen as it did.

[GioforPM]

The idea would've originated with Theo and his agent. Whether he then went to Bettman or the Flames first, they both cooperated, and it was decent of both. Bettman had to bend some rules as I recall, and do special meetings, and the Flames obviously were giving up a preseason spot when I doubt anyone thought he'd have any shot at the team.

It actually led to one of these communication issues, as I recall Theo's comments during the season when the Flames were struggling offensively being less than full of gratitude.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Fleury Story on Sportsnet. He's moving onto a new chapter in his life and trying to create a new identity beyond hockey player. That's tough to do for a lot of guys.

Also, interesting revelation that his mom had substance abuse issues while he was in utero. It made him more susceptable to cocaine in particular.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/t...algary-flames/

Ah Sportsnet -- they can't seem to figure out how to synch the audio with the play on TV, but they sure as hell know how to get the audio roaring as soon as you click on their stories.

Hey Rogers! Those autoplaying videos suck!

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Ah Sportsnet -- they can't seem to figure out how to synch the audio with the play on TV, but they sure as hell know how to get the audio roaring as soon as you click on their stories.

Hey Rogers! Those autoplaying videos suck!

Everyone is starting to do it and it is getting annoying. Want to check out the boxscore on NHL.com? You have to do so while watching a video.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by browna

He got reinstated just before Flames camp (Sept 10 2009, according to google) And I think you'd be fooling yourself given that timing, thinking the Flames didn't ask Bettman for a favour in that regard and moving that decision along in the weeks before that.

With (supposed) said interest from other teams, and then given his "historic" exhibition shooutout winner, if there was legit interest elsewhere after he got cut, he (as any player who would've been offered a roster spot somehwere else) would've taken it. Bottom line, the Flames stepped up to help him get back in the league, and the benefits that afforded Theo and Theo alone. The exhibition games were the cherry on top.

Good for him to retire on his own terms and as an active player, but don't discount the Flames required assistance in making it all happen as it did.

I also think Theo is hoping to get into the hockey HOF which may explain a little of why he's tooting his own horn. I hope he gets it but if he wasn't re-instated, he'd have no chance.

[Locke]

I always liked Theo on the ice, he was an amazing player and the parallels between him and Johnny are very similar; small, talented and skilled players who defied the odds and constant criticism of their size in order to succeed.

Fair enough.

I dont rate Theo's modern hockey analytics very highly though.

The 80s and 90s were a complete joke compared to hockey today, put a fan in front of a game from that era and the current era and see which they prefer.

Sure, Theo may have had 250 pound guys hanging off of him, but in that era most of them were 250 pounds of half drunk, chain-smoking fatass that could barely stand on skates, not 250 pounds of pure skill and steel like Zdeno Chara.

And even then, obviously, 250 pounds is a wild exaggeration.

Further, while clutching and grabbing was eliminated to increase scoring, scoring has still gone down because the average talent level at the moment compared to the dead puck era is off the charts.

Its no accident that point totals from that era cant be replicated. Its not due to lack of skilled or talented players. Quite the opposite is actually true.

That said, Gaudreau is doing exactly what we as Flames fans are hoping for.; quietly going about his game and letting his stick and his points do the talking.

I for one, prefer it that way. Go Johnny go.

[Iggy Snipe]

Theo was an awesome hockey player who over came a lot of things. Was always exciting to watch in one way or another.

However, shame on him for taking anything away from Johnny G. Theo has no respect for anyone who plays the game or has played the game except for himself.

Johnny still has to overcome a lot based on his size. Either the way, the game has changed for the better. It is a much faster game now, its not even close to the slow speed it was played back in the day.

[Jason14h]

Just because it's a pet peeve, Fleury didn't play in the 80's, his rookie year was in 89.

By 94? the full trap was in effect thanks to NJ so he never got to play in an easy decade

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Just because it's a pet peeve, Fleury didn't play in the 80's, his rookie year was in 89.

By 94? the full trap was in effect thanks to NJ so he never got to play in an easy decade

IIRC (and I do) he straddled the two styles.

BTW, Theo used the liberal hooking rules as well as anyone. He used to hook onto guys and ski behind them. Then whip himself past.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Just because it's a pet peeve, Fleury didn't play in the 80's, his rookie year was in 89.

By 94? the full trap was in effect thanks to NJ so he never got to play in an easy decade

That's not entirely true. Here are the '92-'93 scoring leaders:



Points
1. Mario Lemieux*-PIT 160
2. Pat LaFontaine*-BUF 148
3. Adam Oates*-BOS 142
4. Steve Yzerman*-DET 137
5. Pierre Turgeon-NYI 132
Teemu Selanne-WIN 132
7. Alexander Mogilny-BUF 127
Doug Gilmour*-TOR 127
9. Luc Robitaille*-LAK 125
10. Mark Recchi-PHI 123
11. Mats Sundin*-QUE 114
12. Kevin Stevens-PIT 111
13. Pavel Bure*-VAN 110
14. Rick Tocchet-PIT 109
15. Jeremy Roenick-CHI 107
16. Craig Janney-STL 106
17. Joe Sakic*-QUE 105
18. Joe Juneau-BOS 102
19. Brett Hull*-STL 101
20. Ron Francis*-PIT 100
Theoren Fleury-CGY 100

[SixtySix]

Originally Posted by Locke

I always liked Theo on the ice, he was an amazing player and the parallels between him and Johnny are very similar; small, talented and skilled players who defied the odds and constant criticism of their size in order to succeed.

Fair enough.

I dont rate Theo's modern hockey analytics very highly though.

The 80s and 90s were a complete joke compared to hockey today, put a fan in front of a game from that era and the current era and see which they prefer.

Sure, Theo may have had 250 pound guys hanging off of him, but in that era most of them were 250 pounds of half drunk, chain-smoking fatass that could barely stand on skates, not 250 pounds of pure skill and steel like Zdeno Chara.

And even then, obviously, 250 pounds is a wild exaggeration.

Further, while clutching and grabbing was eliminated to increase scoring, scoring has still gone down because the average talent level at the moment compared to the dead puck era is off the charts.

Its no accident that point totals from that era cant be replicated. Its not due to lack of skilled or talented players. Quite the opposite is actually true.

That said, Gaudreau is doing exactly what we as Flames fans are hoping for.; quietly going about his game and letting his stick and his points do the talking.

I for one, prefer it that way. Go Johnny go.

This post is such a joke lol. Pretty disrespectful to some of the greatest players to ever play, many of whom thrived in today's era as well. Improved coaching, nutrition, and technology does not mean that players today are any more talented. Are you saying Lidstrom was just a pylon until the era changed, then he magically learned to skate?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

That's not entirely true. Here are the '92-'93 scoring leaders:



Points
1. Mario Lemieux*-PIT 160
2. Pat LaFontaine*-BUF 148
3. Adam Oates*-BOS 142
4. Steve Yzerman*-DET 137
5. Pierre Turgeon-NYI 132
Teemu Selanne-WIN 132
7. Alexander Mogilny-BUF 127
Doug Gilmour*-TOR 127
9. Luc Robitaille*-LAK 125
10. Mark Recchi-PHI 123
11. Mats Sundin*-QUE 114
12. Kevin Stevens-PIT 111
13. Pavel Bure*-VAN 110
14. Rick Tocchet-PIT 109
15. Jeremy Roenick-CHI 107
16. Craig Janney-STL 106
17. Joe Sakic*-QUE 105
18. Joe Juneau-BOS 102
19. Brett Hull*-STL 101
20. Ron Francis*-PIT 100
Theoren Fleury-CGY 100

I don't recall the trap and the "dead puck era" being in full swing until after the 94-95 lockout. That's when the Devils started to win a lot and teams copied.

[GioforPM]

Prior to the 1993-94 NHL season, teams on average scored 3.63 goals per game or a combined game score of 7.26 goals being scored each game. The following season these averages started a percipitous decline to 3.24 and 6.48.
Scoring reached a low of 2.56 goals per team per game and a total of 5.12 goals per game in the 2003-04 season - this was 2.14 less goals per game than the 1992-93 NHL season.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/dictio...-puck-era.aspx

[Locke]

Originally Posted by SixtySix

This post is such a joke lol. Pretty disrespectful to some of the greatest players to ever play, many of whom thrived in today's era as well. Improved coaching, nutrition, and technology does not mean that players today are any more talented. Are you saying Lidstrom was just a pylon until the era changed, then he magically learned to skate?

If you read my post I said the 'average talent level.'

Obviously Lidstrom isnt your average player, but the structure and overall average talent level is much, much higher now.

So, what I am saying is that the pylons on the ice while Lidstrom is taking a breather are a lot better than they used to be.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't recall the trap and the "dead puck era" being in full swing until after the 94-95 lockout. That's when the Devils started to win a lot and teams copied.

You're quite right but Fleury certainly played a few years in the high scoring Smythe division.

[Max Cow Disease]

Plenty of posters seem quick to invoke Theo's drug-related demons within this discussion yet are neglecting that Johnny has likely been wrestling with what could be the 15th or 16th year running of a stubbornly deep seated Skittle addiction.