Friedman's 30 Thoughts - Nov 6

[Hemi-Cuda]

One thing I hope Hartley and Treliving do is once bodies start getting healthy, let Sven sit in the press box for a game before deciding who to send down. Let him study this team in real-time so he can try to figure out what he needs to do to fit in. Worked wonders for Wideman and Gaudreau, maybe Hartley can go 3 for 3

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I've listend to what he's said. There is absolutely nothing wrong in that quote.

He wants to be an NHLer. He is of course disappointed that he didn't make the team.

Does this somehow imply that he's not ready to work hard? Does it imply that he hasn't been working hard?

Sven has been the first guy on the ice for practice with ADK and is consistently the last guy off the ice. Don't tell me that, just because he doesn't say what you want him to say in interviews with the media, that he's not doing what you want him to do.

He's actually not doing what I want him to do. I don't want a sourpuss part of the Flames team. He flat out needs to be more positive or he just won't fit in on the Flames. It starts with Hartley. He's ridiculously positive and has the team believing they're a lot better than they are. It's important that Sven catch onto this positivity, joy, enthusiasm, whatever, because that's what's making the Flames successful, despite any setbacks that come their way. A less positive team would crumple at the first sign of adversity, but not the current group of Flames.

It's a big reason why Sven isn't successful on a consistent basis. He's lost confidence and the belief that good things can happen for him. I haven't heard a positive quote from Baertschi in almost forever. It's a bad sign because he'll never be confident if he doesn't believe he can be successful. Someone who believes doesn't talk the way Sven does, they talk the way Josh Jooris does. It matters.

[GioforPM]

I'll admit there's less wrong with that quote than the one where he was scratched last year. But the contrast is with Jooris (who wasn't cliched).

The funny thing is - you say I'm reading something that isn't there. How come there are so many who read it like I do? Is it a vast conspiracy?

It's not one quote, or one performance. It's the mounting sum of all of the game performances (NHL and AHL), the coaches' statements, the Sven quotes, his agent's quotes. People are entitled to make conclusions based on evidence. You can disagree, but your argument gets weaker with each item added.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'll "STOP" with the "cliched" answers retort when people who know nothing about Sven Baertschi stop talking like they know what he had for breakfast.

OK, you edited at the last second, so I want to respond specifically to this.

When players are struggling you look for reasons as to why. Barring anything physically holding him back, which there's been no reports of, the only thing left is to look at Baertschi's mindset and psyche. It is not a crime to look at what he says and how he says it to get a glimpse into what is the stumbling block for a guy that seemingly has every tool necessary to make the NHL.

I don't feel I'm digging too deep into what he's saying at all. I've worked with and managed people long enough to know when they're saying what I want to hear or not, so I can see through cliched responses. You look for trends with attitude and performance over long periods of time. With Sven, I can say that when he has a setback it affects his on-ice play more, and for longer periods of time than most players. Why? I don't know. I just know that it's not because he's out of shape, doesn't have skill, doesn't work hard, doesn't understand how to play the game…any of that. It's something else, and I think everyone is trying to get to the bottom of it, for the sake of Sven and the organization.

Only Sven can help Sven at this point.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

OK, STOP with the "cliche answer" qualifier. If you want us to judge Sven at his word then listen to what he's saying. It's pretty negative and doesn't have anything positive to say. I'm not looking for cliches. I'm looking for him to be enthusiastic or positive for once. Not even Craig Conroy enthusiasm/positivity either, just a normal human level of it.

I think we all need to stop trying to take 1 or 2 quotes and make big assumptions on it. Ok, so Sven isn't as PC as some others... that doesn't equate pouting or whining or anything. I don't think it makes him any better or worse as a prospect than someone who is PC in all his quotes, but behind closed doors thinks the opposite. Of coarse saying that, I did speculate that he probably read his press clippings too much with those 5 games + being told his NHL spot was his to lose. I believe Sven still has a great competitive spirit, but maybe he gets down on himself too much because he's not meeting his own expectations... but I'll stop speculating now.

I do agree though, that Sven hasn't done anything to justify a NHL spot... his careers on the line here, he's got to come in and bring something.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

One thing I hope Hartley and Treliving do is once bodies start getting healthy, let Sven sit in the press box for a game before deciding who to send down. Let him study this team in real-time so he can try to figure out what he needs to do to fit in. Worked wonders for Wideman and Gaudreau, maybe Hartley can go 3 for 3

Something tells me it wouldn't work for Sven. He would take it too hard. You have to build Sven up, which is why I believe he was recalled even though he didn't necessarily deserve it. I think they're trying to give him a vote of confidence so he can apply himself more. Just a theory mind you.

[Ashasx]

So, apparently there's nothing wrong with that quote, and Treliving thinks there's nothing wrong with that quote, yet here you guys are, talking about Sven like he's some sort of delinquent.

There is nothing there.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

OK, you edited at the last second, so I want to respond specifically to this.

When players are struggling you look for reasons as to why. Barring anything physically holding him back, which there's been no reports of, the only thing left is to look at Baertschi's mindset and psyche. It is not a crime to look at what he says and how he says it to get a glimpse into what is the stumbling block for a guy that seemingly has every tool necessary to make the NHL.

I don't feel I'm digging too deep into what he's saying at all. I've worked with and managed people long enough to know when they're saying what I want to hear or not, so I can see through cliched responses. You look for trends with attitude and performance over long periods of time. With Sven, I can say that when he has a setback it affects his on-ice play more, and for longer periods of time than most players. Why? I don't know. I just know that it's not because he's out of shape, doesn't have skill, doesn't work hard, doesn't understand how to play the game…any of that. It's something else, and I think everyone is trying to get to the bottom of it, for the sake of Sven and the organization.

Only Sven can help Sven at this point.

So you're assuming that what Sven says to the media is the same as his discussion with coaches/management?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

...Sven hasn't done anything to justify a NHL spot... his careers on the line here, he's got to come in and bring something.

In all of this, this is the bottom line here. Regardless of whether or not Baertschi has an attitude problem, a confidence problem, or if he feels slighted by management, it is entirely up to him now to get through it. He needs to play HARD, and people need to see him play HARD.

I have always been a big Baertschi booster, but I was honestly disappointed and a bit bewildered watching the last game. He was invisible. I am quite certain that if he had a game in which he showed some drive, intensity, desire, the coaches would notice and respond.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So, apparently there's nothing wrong with that quote, and Treliving thinks there's nothing wrong with that quote, yet here you guys are, talking about Sven like he's some sort of delinquent.

There is nothing there.

LOL @ delinquent.



Ok fine, but the only other option is he's not a very good hockey player. How else do you explain his performance?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In all of this, this is the bottom line here. Regardless of whether or not Baertschi has an attitude problem, a confidence problem, or if he feels slighted by management, it is entirely up to him now to get through it. He needs to play HARD, and people need to see him play HARD.

I have always been a big Baertschi booster, but I was honestly disappointed and a bit bewildered watching the last game. He was invisible. I am quite certain that if he had a game in which he showed some drive, intensity, desire, the coaches would notice and respond.

Yeah, totally sucks for everyone... sucks for him, sucks for the Flames, sucks for us fans. It looks like Sven has a long road ahead of him, I don't think its a bad attitude, but never the less its a road that might take him through the minors or another league before he finds himself a permanent NHL spot... if ever. I hope its not the case, but it looks like he's got a lot of stuff to work through thats harder then "get stronger, get faster, get better defensively" .... Sven needs to come back to the NHL with that edge he used to have, and thats the hardest thing to get back IMO.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So you're assuming that what Sven says to the media is the same as his discussion with coaches/management?

Huh? I don't know where you got that. I was talking about cliche responses (mostly positive ones) as things that you can read through by looking at the person's actions. It actually wasn't in reference to Sven at all. Sorry for the confusion.

[GioforPM]

Sven's main problem is the competition for spots he now faces. Both here and in Addy. Porier just came in and potted a couple right off the bat, and got good priase from Huska for physicality and effort.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Hartley hasn't gave Baertschi any chance to prove his skills.

He would rather spoon feed Setoguchi PP time.

Hartley has coached a team with many young players improving under his guidance (Backlund, Gaudreau, Brodie, Wotherspoon, Colborne, Monahan, Bouma, Jooris, Granlund, Bryon, Russell) but obviously it's his fault that Sven is sucking.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

LOL @ delinquent.



Ok fine, but the only other option is he's not a very good hockey player. How else do you explain his performance?

I know exactly what the word means and it's precisely the word I intended to use.

If you will refrain from personal attacks I'd rather this discussion not get out of hand.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Fire

Hartley has coached a team with many young players improving under his guidance (Backlund, Gaudreau, Brodie, Wotherspoon, Colborne, Monahan, Bouma, Jooris, Granlund, Bryon, Russell) but obviously it's his fault that Sven is sucking.

Is Sven sucking?

He's had two games with low minutes, which is fine we've seen Hartley bring guys along slowly and give them more as they earn it, but I haven't seen anything to suggest he's sucked in those two games.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Hartley hasn't gave Baertschi any chance to prove his skills.

He would rather spoon feed Setoguchi PP time.

Yah, Seto has been handed chances to succeed all season long up in the press box. As for the rest, Seto's history and play so far this year has earned him more right to that PP time than Sven (not that either really deserve it).

The excuses people want to make for Sven are ridiculous. As some other poster pointed out, of all our prospects and young folks that should have a reasonable chance at progressing and succeeding, Sven seems to be the only one struggling to make their mark. But yah, the problem is Hartley and not Sven's play.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sven's main problem is the competition for spots he now faces. Both here and in Addy. Porier just came in and potted a couple right off the bat, and got good priase from Huska for physicality and effort.

There's not that many positions available for small hockey players on a hockey team. Gaudreau and Byron have 2 of those sports making Sven's task that much tougher.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I know exactly what the word means and it's precisely the word I intended to use.

If you will refrain from personal attacks I'd rather this discussion not get out of hand.

hardly a personal attack. Chill out.

Delinquent: (typically of a young person or that person's behavior) showing or characterized by a tendency to commit crime, particularly minor crime.

So you meant to say Baertschi has criminal tendencies then. Ok, that's weird.

Edit: sorry, you meant to say that we are treating Sven like he has criminal tendencies. Just to be clear.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

hardly a personal attack. Chill out.

Delinquent: (typically of a young person or that person's behavior) showing or characterized by a tendency to commit crime, particularly minor crime.

So you meant to say Baertschi has criminal tendencies then. Ok, that's weird.

Edit: sorry, you meant to say that we are treating Sven like he has criminal tendencies. Just to be clear.

Yes.