Friedman's 30 Thoughts - Nov 6

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think we can trade a Dman, at least not one of the top 4. We could trade Smid/Rafa in a package with a fwd to get a better Dman. I wouldn't trade Engelland at this point. Don't think anyone would take him at the salary either.

I'd say Glencross is the best veteran trade bait. If Seto picks it up, I could see a PO team wanting him as depth.

I don't see any team currently ready to give a decent defenseman for Diaz and Smid Smid is (regardless of the +). There's very few d out there, so there's a pretty good premium on D right now

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I don't see any team currently ready to give a decent defenseman for Diaz and Smid Smid is (regardless of the +). There's very few d out there, so there's a pretty good premium on D right now

I didn't mean straight across. I meant they'd likely go in a package with a fwd or two (since the other team would need to fill a D hole). So, say Glencross/Smid/2nd round pick or a prospect for a decent young D man.

[CliffFletcher]

Even worse, a few teams that saw him were exceedingly unimpressed, with one suggesting he wouldn’t want Baertschi near his other prospects.

The implication seems to be that he sulks or whines. Because I don't think lack of confidence is something managers would be worried about rubbing off on other prospects.

[flamesfever]

I believe with patience, and a little puck luck, Sven will get back his scoring touch. I would still like to see him back with Ty Rattie at some point. Many times it's not the individual player, but the tandem that contributes to success.

[GreenLantern2814]

Sven has looked like he's skating in mud. A bad bounce on Hiller isn't the reason he was stapled to the bench. He was completely lacking an explosive element to his game.

Be Sven Baertschi. Attack. That's your puck. The sooner you turn it over, the sooner you can score. If the old man doesn't like you, say #### him and go out on your own terms. There's no crying at work. Never let them see you bleed. Get angry. Act like you've got a pair, and bump David Jones off Monahan's wing. Please.

Another fine article from Friedman.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I'll ask a question in regards to Sven. I agree, there is some confidence mental issue going on there. And for the record, I don't think he's at a do or die point.

But, people keep wondering, what happened to Sven, but I'm a little bit thinking did anything "happen" to him. He certainly found ways to get some points in his first stint I the NHL, and I have a tough time saying that it was all luck, or good fortune. But, part of me feels like it might just have been and he was just putting up points at a pace not reflective of his play.

I say that, because even in his first stint in the NHL, the points were there, but as a fan watching the games, I don't recall ever taking notice of Sven's play, other than when you noticed he got some points. What I mean by that, is take Gaudreau for example, when he's playing so far this year, points or not, you notice the things he's doing on the ice, and you go, wow, that kids got something. Totally understand Sven's not as flashy as a player as Johnny, so that's part of it, but at the same time I think there's something to it.

Same thing with Monahan last year. He's a much more boring player than Johnny, easier to miss, but even last year, points or no points you notice him doing things on the ice, whether the points come or not that just gave you faith he was going to be the real deal.

At the NHL level, I never noticed Sven in the same way. I noticed his points per game were good, which hey, is huge. But at the same time he was never really a "noticeable" guy on the ice, so you were left wondering a bit why he was getting his points. I wonder if his early numbers weren't actually that reflective of his play, and he hasn't actually fallen off as much as we think.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think we can trade a Dman, at least not one of the top 4. We could trade Smid/Rafa in a package with a fwd to get a better Dman. I wouldn't trade Engelland at this point. Don't think anyone would take him at the salary either.

I'd say Glencross is the best veteran trade bait. If Seto picks it up, I could see a PO team wanting him as depth.

If the Flames come back to Earth like so many think then Wideman would make an excellent piece to trade at the deadline, especially with the next draft being deeper than most. If Wideman can keep his solid play up and get a few more goals here and there Treleving might even be able to get a 1st out of someone desperate enough

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by madmike

It's true - but my point is he's not playing in a vacuum.

Maybe he should try playing in a vacuum. Who knows? Maybe that wind resistance is holding up his skating and effort.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The Flames have given other prospects that have shown far less new contracts.

It's not in the Flames best interests to release Baertschi for nothing. We are not near that point.

Baertschi needs to earn a contract. Plain and simple. I don't know of other prospects who have shown less in the past couple of years, compared against expectations, and earned a contract. If other teams are seeing this and don't want him near their prospects, then it is becoming pretty obvious where the problems lay. If he doesn't step up, why would you offer him a contract and eat away the numbers you have to play with. The smart play might be to encourage him to go back to Europe and see if his game develops. The Flames can retain his rights and put him someplace where he might get better and not impact the rest of the prospects.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by New Era

Baertschi needs to earn a contract. Plain and simple. I don't know of other prospects who have shown less in the past couple of years, compared against expectations, and earned a contract. If other teams are seeing this and don't want him near their prospects, then it is becoming pretty obvious where the problems lay. If he doesn't step up, why would you offer him a contract and eat away the numbers you have to play with. The smart play might be to encourage him to go back to Europe and see if his game develops. The Flames can retain his rights and put him someplace where he might get better and not impact the rest of the prospects.

To be fair, Greg Neimz got another contract.

I don't think you let Sven walk for nothing with 3-4 RFA years left. Either ride this out, or move him for something in return. Although Friedmans remarks are a tad concerning when it comes to other teams looking in on Sven.

[Travis Munroe]

This Sven talk is getting real old. He is still a kid.
Nobody saw this start coming for the flames and the contributions given by certain players. Had that not been the case, the Sven debate wouldnt exist.
No harm in having him around for another 3 years to see what he develops into. We have seen what he can be so why all this "running out of time" is always posted is beyond me.
0 downside to having him as part of the organization for another 3-4 years. He has little to no trade value and has potential to be a top 6 fwd.
Who is to say any of the unexpected talent doesnt fall off the same way as Sven and need time to get back to their game. Should they be written off in a year from now as well?

[cannon7]

Baertschi clearly isn't toxic when it comes to other prospects. Granlund and Jooris are clearly unaffected. Baertschi likely doesn't have an attitude problem, more of a confidence problem. I actually think Treliving is being truthful about this.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

This Sven talk is getting real old. He is still a kid.
Nobody saw this start coming for the flames and the contributions given by certain players. Had that not been the case, the Sven debate wouldnt exist.
No harm in having him around for another 3 years to see what he develops into. We have seen what he can be so why all this "running out of time" is always posted is beyond me.
0 downside to having him as part of the organization for another 3-4 years. He has little to no trade value and has potential to be a top 6 fwd.
Who is to say any of the unexpected talent doesnt fall off the same way as Sven and need time to get back to their game. Should they be written off in a year from now as well?

Sure all this Sven chatter is getting old.
But an honest question in terms of his development, did you think you'd see him get jumped over in the depth chart by Ferland, Granlund, Gaudreau, Jooris......JOORIS, and now maybe Poirier (not to mention by default Bennett who hasn't even played games yet this year)?

Two years may separate Jooris and Ferland from Sven but they also weren't first round picks, the rest of those kids are just that, younger than Sven.

I do agree though, ride his RFA years out if you cannot find a good enough trade. But lets be realistic here, he has fallen from grace. His own lofty style of play is missing.


The onus is on Sven to right the ship. I want to see him take charge of his fate. Not whimper out and be frustrated or disappointed.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Sven has looked like he's skating in mud. A bad bounce on Hiller isn't the reason he was stapled to the bench. He was completely lacking an explosive element to his game.

Be Sven Baertschi. Attack. That's your puck. The sooner you turn it over, the sooner you can score. If the old man doesn't like you, say #### him and go out on your own terms. There's no crying at work. Never let them see you bleed. Get angry. Act like you've got a pair, and bump David Jones off Monahan's wing. Please.

Another fine article from Friedman.

The Flames clearly want prospects to compete for positions. Sven needs to out-compete somebody for a spot. No coasting allowed.

[1stLand]

He just simply isn't any good anymore.

How do you only manage 3 assists in 10 games in the AHL? Bad attitude or not?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Sven has looked like he's skating in mud. A bad bounce on Hiller isn't the reason he was stapled to the bench. He was completely lacking an explosive element to his game.

Be Sven Baertschi. Attack. That's your puck. The sooner you turn it over, the sooner you can score. If the old man doesn't like you, say #### him and go out on your own terms. There's no crying at work. Never let them see you bleed. Get angry. Act like you've got a pair, and bump David Jones off Monahan's wing. Please.

Another fine article from Friedman.

Why would anyone expect him to try and play in the style that brought him success? They basically told the kid that they want him to be a different type of player.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

Why would anyone expect him to try and play in the style that brought him success? They basically told the kid that they want him to be a different type of player.

Nope. Source?

[lanny9]

Honestly, I think the best for Sven right now would be for him to go play a year in the KHL. If some of the issues is resentment towards the Flames and not getting his NHL wage,or that he thinks he deserves to be up with the big team then go over there, earn a decent wage and maybe a year away from here would do wonders? It may give him the drive to be a better player and give 100% effort when he comes back.

He needs to get away from all the naysayers, get out of the "bust" spotlight he's in and go figure out his game. Maybe a year in another foreign country will toughen him up mentally, grow him as a person, mature some more and allow him the time to develop as a player.

I'm saying this as a person who still thinks he could become a remarkable player, if he gets his head on straight. Just trying to think what would be best for him. Don't think sending him to play in the Swiss league would do anything for him, it would stoke an ego but wouldn't help him develop as well as the KHL would imo.

The above is if the problem truly is between his ears, we don't know if that's it or not but if it is then the team should be doing something about it, sports psychologist or something?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

He just simply isn't any good anymore.

How do you only manage 3 assists in 10 games in the AHL? Bad attitude or not?

Regardless of the stats you've read, Sven has been among the better forwards for ADK and management has shared this belief.

[Flash Walken]

A 7 in a sea of 3s.