[News] Update: Flames recall Sven Baertschi. Colborne on IR.

[Jables16]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I can't think of any prospect that has been more publicly degraded and humiliated in the media by a team president.

I think for any prospect, for any player, that's a hard thing to play through.

Nazem Kadri got this treatment and then some. And that was in Toronto where the media and fan scrutiny is even more intense. He was recalled and reassigned six times before establishing himself, and while I'm not the biggest fan of his play, he's an established NHLer that has put up 50 points and produced at almost a point per game pace at times. They also seem like similar players in that a lot of their effectiveness is based on confidence, Kadri goes through long point droughts and then erupts for big scoring streaks.

Not everyone's path to the NHL easy or the same. Sven getting demoted and recalled a couple times this year would not be shocking. Personally I'm not ready to write him off and I really hope the Flames management isn't either.

[Freeway]

I wonder if Sven gets some extra games in (or up) because they want to showcase him.

[dammage79]

I listened to the Fan today after hockey central at noon and Kerr along with Steinberg made a point I really agreed with about Sven.

And that was right now, there is no one else in charge of Sven's direction other than Sven himself. It may not be time to give up on him but he definitely needs to respond and answer the challenges presented himself.

I still contend though that it is getting close to the time where you do look for options in the trade pool to address organizational need and deal from a position of strength.

Before that happens though I'd like to see Hartley put him in a position to succeed and put him with Monahan once again to see if that ignites him.

Problem with that is though, he needs to improve enough to get that opportunity. And like the guys on the radio said today, he's not a liability out there and he's not hurting the team, but he's really not adding anything either. Thus not getting more ice time during games.

The one thing to me about Sven being benched last night is that whatever message the coaches are trying to get through to Sven are obviously not sinking in. He is still doing something out there that is driving them up the wall. I don't know if its he's out of position constantly within the system they're playing or something else. But it is not sitting well with the coaches.

The rest of this road trip is his chance I think. After that, if he hasn't delivered something, anything of what they want of him, I think his bed is made with Hartley.

[foshizzle11]

I think his bed is made with Hartley and Burke/Treliving if he doesn't start to show more compete. I bet that is all they want but I don't see it. He needs to get back to the basics of his own game, fall into the systems and do what is asked but you can still be creative, he has the skill but his mind is getting in the way right now.

I would imagine it is very frustrating. I won't give up on him yet, he is still young and I think can turn the corner, it might take until next season or the season after but he can make it. None of us want to wait that long but he has to put in the effort. Like others mentioned, everything is in his court right now.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Degraded and humiliated? Hyperbole much?

Burke is not above sending a message through the media and so, when asked what he’s learned thus far of Baertschi, he answered: “That I don’t know. That I don’t know. I’m not sure. … All I’ve seen so far is flashes of brilliance. Flashes of brilliance are fine if you’re working in the university, but they’re not much good to people in an NHL building.

“There are three zones in the ice surfaces in this league. I don’t see that he’s learned to play and compete in two of them. He’s got to learn there’s a clock in this league and there’s so many minutes in the game and that you’ve got to compete through all of it. I see this is a guy who’s focusing on one area [scoring] and even then, sporadically,” Burke said. “So I don’t know what we have.

“I’m not ready to quit on a young kid. I’m not ready to throw him under the bus here today and rip him, but I think you can tell from my comments that I see big holes and I see a lack of commitment that’s not going to get him anywhere in my books.”

The bold is what I think most people have missed. I think most people focused on the zone comments (implying Baertschi wasn't good defensively), but it is what is bolded that I think is the most important to Sven's development. Everyone thought Sven was sent down to work on his defensive acumen more than anything. Though I would agree it needed work, it wasn't much worse (if at all worse) than any other rookie breaking into the NHL.

What I see in Sven's game is a lack of urgency. A lack of compete. A lack of 'jump' in his game. He then gives you a few moments of 'brilliance' (like Burke has stated) where he will make a great offensive play (or even a defensive one at times, actually) and it makes you forget the 3 shifts prior to that one, and the first 30 seconds of that one shift up until that moment of brilliance. It makes people think Sven is a special player - and in many ways, he is.

I think that is what this organization is trying to beat into him at the moment - you have a 45 second shift, we want you to be working hard and skating hard for that entire shift. Not just when you find yourself with a premium chance, not just when you find yourself having to cover up for a mistake, but a full 45 second hard shift.

When Gaudreau wasn't doing much at the start of the season, you still saw him have a jump in his game. Jooris has a lot of jump in his game. Granlund has a lot of jump in his game. They all hustle out there. This is a very hard-working team from the top down really. When I see Sven, I honestly can't help but be reminded of the country-club atmosphere - Tanguay and company especially. Incredible skill that very few players possess, but someone that doesn't play hard all the time. Someone that looks almost apathetic. Maybe someone that is just saving it for when the game matters. Well, every second of your shift matters.

To me, the organization doesn't want to turn Sven into a Selke winner. They don't want to turn Sven into a bruiser who will physically engage at every opportunity. I think they want Sven to compete hard for the entirety of his shift, each and every shift. This is why he usually loses a puck battle - not because he isn't strong enough or smart enough, but simply because he simply isn't competing as hard as the other player.

Why hasn't Sven been given more minutes? It is tough to reward someone with more minutes when that player isn't competing as hard as the other players, or even being a difference maker. You simply can not start rewarding Sven at this point in time with increased minutes and further reward him with PP time when he simply isn't putting in full-shifts.

This is what perplexes me the most about Sven. The guy is a hard worker. When the Flames were scouting him thoroughly, this is what they noticed. The fabled hotel room visits where they would look for Sven and see everyone else chilling out or playing video games, and finally finding Sven riding the bike. The whole "staying longer to work on his skills" after practice or after a game. He did that with Calgary as well. He did that in Abbotsford. So why doesn't he skate hard all the time during his shifts? Why hasn't this organization been able to turn that around?

Next game, I encourage people to keep watching Sven every second on the ice regardless of where the puck or situation is. I find him coasting a lot more than other players. It looks like he isn't playing hard. You compare that to Gaudreau, and you see a huge difference. Focus on Granlund - he is such a smart 2-way player at his age, and knows where to be (so you would assume he needs to skate less hard as he is usually already in position or nearby), but he seems to work harder out there continuously. Compare that to Glencross, who many posters feel just doesn't put in full efforts any longer - I see him skating harder and competing harder. Setoguchi - for as relevant he is to the team sadly - also competes way harder. Seto is not getting much in the way of results, but at least he is much harder to play against than Sven is, while being just as productive on the stat sheet.

I hope Sven shows me up next game, and I get this post quoted 30x by 30 different people saying I am an idiot after watching Sven intently. I hope he comes out next game and gives a strong effort. He has done so in the past on the Flames, and has been rewarded (there was a game last season where Sven received the most ice-time of any forward, for instance, at I think ~21 minutes). Hartley DOES reward hard-work. Hartley does reward results too. Sven is not working hard out there, and he is not getting results. You simply can't increase his ice-time and hope for the best. Not only is that sending the wrong message to Sven, it is sending the wrong message to the rest of the team.

Now, before people accuse me of not liking Sven, I ranked him as the 3rd best prospect on this team. I might drop him down another few spots if we were to re-rank at this point in time, but I still think he is easily in the top 10, and probably still in the top 5. I think this kid has loads of talent that few prospects have. I also think that he will eventually get it together and become not only a player in the NHL, but an impact player. I just think it will just take some time, that's all. I think the worst thing happened with his development - he got rushed and rewarded prematurely, at a time when this organization (especially fans) were hoping and praying for some light.

I am still glad we drafted him, and I am glad that he is part of the organization. I just have to shake my head at some posters who insist he is being misused by Hartley, or that Hartley has some personal hate towards Sven that is holding Sven back. I also think it is hilarious that some posters want to see Sven play with better line mates - he was playing with Byron, who did very well with Monahan, did very well with Gaudreau, etc. Byron is what I consider the very best player to play with Sven right now. He is quick enough and talented enough to play with Sven. He is gritty enough and defensively responsible enough to help cover for Sven's mistakes. He is also a kid who has had to work very hard and keep working very hard every single second that Hartley sends him over the boards. He was also under the microscope for a while for being part of the Regehr trade. If I was Hartley, I would make these two room together on road trips, and when I sent Byron out for a shift without Sven, I would whisper into Sven's ear: "If you played with this much heart and urgency in your game each and every shift, not only would I give you all the ice time you could handle, but you would be on your way to becoming a star in this league.". I would argue that Byron deserves to be playing with better line mates than Sven, actually. I can't think of a better influence and a better line mate to Sven than Byron, actually.

Sven is not a bust. He is simply someone who I think was rewarded for not playing full-shifts, and he has to realize this HAS to change. He has more than enough NHL talent. It just appears that his compete level (even though he is a hard working off the ice) is not where it needs to be, and once he learns to give it his all every shift, he will be asked to buy a property in Calgary.

[CalgaryFan1988]

^^ do you sell Coles notes?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

^^ do you sell Coles notes?

Really?

It is honestly worth it if you find the wherewithal to take 5 mins to read the whole thing. It's an excellent post.

[Lanny_McDonald]

What I see with Baertschi is he does nothing to stand out. He plays a very nondescript game and doesn't make you take notice of him. Since he went to 27 he has blended in and hard to pick out of the crowd. I really don't see him out there and that is not a good thing. He gets out played by every one of his line mates, and when they are guys like Byron or Setoguchi, that isn't a good thing. He really needs to step his game up or he's done in the NHL.

The way he is playing right now I can't see the Flames wasting a contract on him next year, not if this is the level of play they are going to get out him. He's a non-factor in the NHL and hasn't become a player in the AHL either. They may actually encourage him to go to Europe so they don't have to use a contract on him next year and then see if he can get his game together. I would say his window is close to being closed. Too many other youngsters stepping up. He's got until the injured start returning, so he better step up and leave it all on the ice over the next couple of games, or he's going to be legendary in these parts for falling so far so fast.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

What I see in Sven's game is a lack of urgency. A lack of compete. A lack of 'jump' in his game. >>>> He has more than enough NHL talent. It just appears that his compete level (even though he is a hard working off the ice) is not where it needs to be, and once he learns to give it his all every shift, he will be asked to buy a property in Calgary.

Great post.
IMO that totally just described why Phaneuf fell off the map too. Ignoring rumored off ice issues, his on ice effort lost that effort. That urgency.

I am not comparing Sven to Phaneuf, or even necessarily agreeing with you, but I am going to watch Sven next game with your post in mind.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

^^ do you sell Coles notes?

This is what's wrong with today's generation. You're neither too busy or too important to not read an excellent post. Deal.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by Igster

This is what's wrong with today's generation. You're neither too busy or too important to not read an excellent post. Deal.

No attention span...hence twitter and picture taking apps

But I digress....


I can't sum it up better than Calgary4Life, he hit all the high spots. I don't think it's physical, I think it's in his head...and I don't know how anyone can work him through it, it's not like its a conditioning stint in the A and then he's 100%.

It may be, as sad as it is, that he's simply not cut out for today's NHL. His mental game may be better suited to Europe. That would be too bad, because the kid has shown he has the talent.

Maybe he needs to work with a sports psychologist?

[GioforPM]

It's a good post, and a fair one. I agree that, at least with Hartley, a compete level is what they're looking for. You can tell that's what Hartley loves about Bouma.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think the thing that bothers me most about Baertschi is that he just doesn't seem to get it. When he was sent down last time, he said a few things that suggested he was puzzled by the decision. It's like he really can't see what the other prospects are bringing that he isn't.

[PeteMoss]

Let's also put to rest the idea that Sven was benched for the giveaway that led to that flukey goal.

He had two shifts in the third. He just wasn't doing anything and the team needed to score. Bollig also had two shifts in the 3rd. They needed goals and Hartley felt the other guys were more likely to produce.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

^^ do you sell Coles notes?

Sven would ask for the Coles notes...

Jooris, Byron, Granlund, Gaudreau wouldn't

Don't be a Sven

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

^^ do you sell Coles notes?

If you actually took the time to read it, it was a fantastic post.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Let's also put to rest the idea that Sven was benched for the giveaway that led to that flukey goal.

He had two shifts in the third. He just wasn't doing anything and the team needed to score. Bollig also had two shifts in the 3rd. They needed goals and Hartley felt the other guys were more likely to produce.

That, plus Washington also shortened the bench, so you needed guys who could defend against their top players. Had Backlund or Stajan been healthy, I suspect Monahan would have not seen the ice that he did. He's good at defence but not as good as them.

[Tinordi]

Sven got it in his head early that he made the team, most of that is on him but some is on Feaster and the mishandling of his early career.

[Phanuthier]

^ yup. Those 5 games + Sven being pretty much told he would be given a spot is the worst thing that has happened to his development thus far.

[ah123]

^agreed

I think Sven needs to take Jooris' attitude; he (Jooris) mentioned in an interview that "it dawned on him that if he got 12 minutes ice time, it was his job to make sure he worked as hard as he could for those 12 minutes"