Willis: Oilers fleeced Flames in Smid trade

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Something > Nothing

I believe Oiler fan logic is that $3.5 million they freed up was key to paying almost $30 million for Nikitin and Pouliot.

[Lobsterfreak]

Originally Posted by waner

Smid played 5/6th minutes of bad hockey last year. Replacing him with bottom pairing minutes playing bad hockey isn't likely to change the Flames finishing 27th last year. Maybe better because Smith/Cundari have the potential to score a goal or two so maybe they are able to get a goal in a 1 goal game while providing a similar level of below average defense that Smid does.

Very good point

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Lobsterfreak

Very good point

I don't agree with waner's point.

He may not be the most heralded player on the roster but Smid is the only defender we have capable of clearing the crease & winning battles in front of the net. What he adds in size and physicality is worth a lot more to the Calgary Flames than a lot of people are giving him credit for. The AHL defenders mentioned are too easily out-muscled in precarious positions. As great as the rest of our smallish, mobile D are at clever plays, positioning and zone transition, none of them provide the dimension that Smid & Engelland do.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

I don't agree with waner's point.

He may not be the most heralded player on the roster but Smid is the only defender we have capable of clearing the crease & winning battles in front of the net. What he adds in size and physicality is worth a lot more to the Calgary Flames than a lot of people are giving him credit for. The AHL defenders mentioned are too easily out-muscled in precarious positions. As great as the rest of our smallish, mobile D are at clever plays, positioning and zone transition, none of them provide the dimension that Smid & Engelland do.

But if that "skill" doesn't translate to tangible benefits (less goals against), then I don't know if it's useful. If your always hemmed in your zone because your not a good defenseman, the other skills don't compensate

[killer_carlson]

Articles like this make advanced stat proponents look real bad

[Flamescat]

So clearly the answer to improve Smid's numbers is to get Jeff Petry.. anyone want to fleece Edmonton on him? I've got a bag of pucks and a flood damaged harvey the hound costume that we can offer them...

[TKB]

Not sure how this guy can claim a fleecing. It was spare parts for a number 6th defenseman. Oilers gain cap space, flames gain a bottom pairing guy. win/win for both teams. The question should really be why is this guy still writing a article about this trade? must be a slow news week when you have to do a write up about garbage for garbage and claim someone actually fleeced the other.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by TKB

Not sure how this guy can claim a fleecing. It was spare parts for a number 6th defenseman. Oilers gain cap space, flames gain a bottom pairing guy. win/win for both teams. The question should really be why is this guy still writing a article about this trade? must be a slow news week when you have to do a write up about garbage for garbage and claim someone actually fleeced the other.

It's only a win/win if the Oilers gained the cap space and did something with it.

Did that happen?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

It's only a win/win if the Oilers gained the cap space and did something with it.

Did that happen?

uhhh ... Nikita ####ing Nikitin.

You better recognize MMF.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If I know the Oilers, how he's getting 'paid' is by not having his media pass revoked. The Ministry of Truth is strong up there.

Maybe Willis is getting force-fed the ideas for his blogs from that PR Firm the Oilers hired to troll HF boards last year.

Remember that? That was good times...

Must be the same PR Firm that Gomeshi hired. No good...

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

But if that "skill" doesn't translate to tangible benefits (less goals against), then I don't know if it's useful. If your always hemmed in your zone because your not a good defenseman, the other skills don't compensate

Don't get me wrong; Smid has his warts. I think we'd all like to see the defence corps upgraded eventually. Smid is currently providing the physical aspect (which we were sorely lacking before we acquired Smid) and he is an experienced NHL veteran, but if this team ever wants to be a serious contender we'll need to find some more complete players on the blue line.

The most effective way to do that is through the draft, so while we wait for the next Al MacInnis/Shea Weber clone to join Brodano on the defence corps, Smid & Engelland are important stop-gaps to have.

Of course the mullet heads up north don't recognise that importance, but Oilers gonna Oil.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Don't get me wrong; Smid has his warts. I think we'd all like to see the defence corps upgraded eventually. Smid is currently providing the physical aspect (which we were sorely lacking before we acquired Smid) and he is an experienced NHL veteran, but if this team ever wants to be a serious contender we'll need to find some more complete players on the blue line.

The most effective way to do that is through the draft, so while we wait for the next Al MacInnis/Shea Weber clone to join Brodano on the defence corps, Smid & Engelland are important stop-gaps to have.

Of course the mullet heads up north don't recognise that importance, but Oilers gonna Oil.

That's fair. I guess for me I understand that he's our 5th/6th best defenseman, but that doesn't mean he's a good 5th/6th defenseman. Last nights game is a great example. On the ice for one scoring chance for and seven against. He's not the 8th best defenseman on a playoff team nevermind a contender.

I just don't understand the "you can't expect him to be a first pair defenseman" argument. I don't. I expect him to be remotely competent

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

That's fair. I guess for me I understand that he's our 5th/6th best defenseman, but that doesn't mean he's a good 5th/6th defenseman. Last nights game is a great example. On the ice for one scoring chance for and seven against. He's not the 8th best defenseman on a playoff team nevermind a contender.

I just don't understand the "you can't expect him to be a first pair defenseman" argument. I don't. I expect him to be remotely competent

At least Butler isn't out there anymore. Smid basically plays those minutes now, and I feel he's more competent than Butler in that role.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by TKB

Not sure how this guy can claim a fleecing. It was spare parts for a number 6th defenseman. Oilers gain cap space, flames gain a bottom pairing guy. win/win for both teams. The question should really be why is this guy still writing a article about this trade? must be a slow news week when you have to do a write up about garbage for garbage and claim someone actually fleeced the other.

Smid isn't garbage. He was the only Oiler to actually give a damn about losing other than Ryan Smyth. The Oilers gave up a serviceable defencemen for nothing. Well they did get cap space to sign a couple tweeners.

The Flames clearly won the trade. Just amazing you call Smid who played an average of 21 minutes a night with the Oilers a 6th defenceman.

[Enoch Root]

It's the classic 'we traded him, now he sucks' thing that fans do.

I remember having lengthy debates with multiple Oiler fans who claimed that Smid was as good as Giordano (yes, Oiler fans are delusional on both sides of this issue).

At no time as an Oiler, was Smid a #6 defenseman. He was mostly a 3/4 guy, who at times - due to the lack of talent on that team - played top pairing minutes, though of course, he was in over his head in that role.

Then they trade him and suddenly he is a piece of garbage, #6 defenseman who was easily expendable for cap space.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's the classic 'we traded him, now he sucks' thing that fans do.

I remember having lengthy debates with multiple Oiler fans who claimed that Smid was as good as Giordano (yes, Oiler fans are delusional on both sides of this issue).

At no time as an Oiler, was Smid a #6 defenseman. He was mostly a 3/4 guy, who at times - due to the lack of talent on that team - played top pairing minutes, though of course, he was in over his head in that role.

Then they trade him and suddenly he is a piece of garbage, #6 defenseman who was easily expendable for cap space.

I remember this delusion. Also the '5 Giordanos' delusion.

I wonder how thats gone for them?

[TKB]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Smid isn't garbage. He was the only Oiler to actually give a damn about losing other than Ryan Smyth. The Oilers gave up a serviceable defencemen for nothing. Well they did get cap space to sign a couple tweeners.

The Flames clearly won the trade. Just amazing you call Smid who played an average of 21 minutes a night with the Oilers a 6th defenceman.

Doesn't that speak volumes of how bad the oilers D was if Smid was playing 21 minutes a night? So in your opinion Smid is a top 4 defenseman then?

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by TKB

Doesn't that speak volumes of how bad the oilers D was if Smid was playing 21 minutes a night? So in your opinion Smid is a top 4 defenseman then?

On the Oilers? Of course he is. And in your opinion he is too.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...highlight=smid

[nik-]

I personally don't think Smid is very good. Clearly a 3rd pairing D. But he's a warrior and the Oilers need more of them. It was a bad trade for them but it's not like we got a stellar D-man.

I won't even address the "fleecing" because it's just laughable.

[TKB]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

On the Oilers? Of course he is. And in your opinion he is too.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...highlight=smid

Check the date of that post, that was from 3 years ago. I think most people that have watched Smid would tell you he has fallen off the face of the earth over the past 2 seasons. Nice try at grasping at straws though.


Also to note: I have Whitney on the top pairing, so that must also mean that I think he is still a top pairing D as well?